Used Boat Broker, am I expecting too much?

[Apathetic]

Hi,

I'm not naming names, but I am interested in buying a used high performance boat that is at a particular broker quite some ways away. When I first began negotiating I received extremely quick answers. He was professional, polite, promised to be helpful (but has turned out not to be) and worked out a great deal with us that, even now, I appreciate. We quickly got to the deposit and contract stage. At this point, I asked specific normal mechanical questions as well as the Hull ID so I could get an insurance quote and possibly run the ID to get a history. In response to this email I got, "you better send in the signed contract and deposit as there has been a lot of interest in this boat." I then replied that I needed this information before sending in a signed contract and deposit. I was told he would be busy all day the next day and would have the Hull ID sent. I received zero information at all. The following day has come and, again, I've received zero information again. The beginning of our contact to present has been 8 days now.

This is not my first time buying from a broker, I bought my Liberator 201 from Smith Mountain Yacht and all of my questions were answered promptly never putting me off. The service was spectacular and the broker is still periodically in contact with me to this day.

I'm willing to admit if I'm wrong, so, am I wrong to be a little PO'd with the broker I'm dealing with currently, or is this more the norm? For me, I wouldn't do business with this current broker except for the fact that he has the boat I want at the price I really want.

Thanks in advance for your opinions...I will take them all seriously even if you say I'm the one who is unreasonable.

 

[RubberFrog]

Re: Used Boat Broker, am I expecting too much?

Something doesn't smell right here. Why are you buying a boat you've never seen nor sea trialed? If he won't give you the hull ID, there is probably something wrong.

 

[Apathetic]

Re: Used Boat Broker, am I expecting too much?

Hi RubberFrog,

The reason I'm willing to buy the boat is I intend to have it surveyed, which I was told is even better than myself going. But, surveying the boat, at least up there, is pretty expensive, so I thought that before I pay money for surveying I would ask normal mechanical questions and get a Hull ID. If the normal questions I had were answered in a way I was happy, then I would pay to have it surveyed, but if they were not, I would just move on to another boat.

Am I thinking wrong here? I just feel a reputable surveyor is going to catch a whole lot more than I am (even though I'm mechanically inclined with cars, there's a lot more to boats, IMO).

Thank you RubberFrog!

 

[salty87]

Re: Used Boat Broker, am I expecting too much?

is there a sales manager you can deal with instead?..any supervisor?

you could probably find the owner fairly easily but the broker probably has a listing agreement.

 

[Solittle]

Re: Used Boat Broker, am I expecting too much?

If you go forward with this make sure that the surveyor is one that you employ and not the seller.

 

[Apathetic]

Re: Used Boat Broker, am I expecting too much?

salty87: Believe it or not, I'm dealing with the owner! And not some small brokerage, either!

Solittle: Roger that, I already have a surveryor in line who, for a little extra, will do the sea trial, too.

Here's the update from yesterday evening:

Receive an email saying that the Brokerage does not have any knowledge concerning mechanical conditions of boats they are selling this way. So, they are emailing the owner to get the questions answered, but I should be prepared to wait quite some time. Wow, just, wow. Incredible.

When I bought my Liberator 201 from Smith Mountain Yachts the broker had most of the information from the owner available, and when he didn't he quickly got it from the owner.

 

[dave524]

Re: Used Boat Broker, am I expecting too much?

Dont do it !!! There are lots of other boats for sale . Buy from someone you can trust. The info you asked for should be ready when the person wants to list the boat. Run, dont walk away from this one !!!!!

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Used Boat Broker, am I expecting too much?

just recently bought a motor from a broker in New Jersey. 2 weeks and he hasn't shipped it yet. i arranged and paid for shipping. since the purchase his communication as dropped to nothing. luckily i paid him thru Paypal. wonder if they are related?

 

[BoatAddiction]

Re: Used Boat Broker, am I expecting too much?

My 2 cents: Trust your instincts and start looking for another boat. When I have dealt with brokers in the past, I always insisted that I had the answers to my questions (mechanical, etc) before even looking at the boat and certainly before price negotiations, contracts, and surveys. Most of the brokers already knew the answers or could get them fairly quickly from the owners.

Here is another tactic I used once when a boat was a long distance from me: Find a knowledgeable boater and/or mechanic that lives near the boat and have them look at the boat for you (not necessarily a sea trial, unless the broker is giving trials away without a contract, but a poke-your-head-under-the-hatches look). If you don't know someone in the area, maybe you can find someone in these forums that might be willing to help you out...maybe for the cost of their gas to ride over to where the boat is. I used a licensed Captain that I knew to look at a yacht I bought one time. He did it for free with a handshake understanding that I would hire him to move my next boat down or up the ICW.

 

[tmh]

Re: Used Boat Broker, am I expecting too much?

uhhhh...isn't the hull ID printed right on the boat? Can't be too hard to get THAT info! Now, WHY hasn't he made this info available to you....maybe because you can run the ID thru a history check????!!!??

Yeah, why do business with anyone who is hard to deal with? It's not like a used boat is a rare item he has the market cornered on. Just go look elsewhere.

 

[Apathetic]

Re: Used Boat Broker, am I expecting too much?

uhhhh...isn't the hull ID printed right on the boat? Can't be too hard to get THAT info! Now, WHY hasn't he made this info available to you....maybe because you can run the ID thru a history check????!!!??

Yeah, why do business with anyone who is hard to deal with? It's not like a used boat is a rare item he has the market cornered on. Just go look elsewhere.

tmh, it's funny you mention that, because after you did I went through my communications with him (I keep all email and a written record of all phone calls) and it was after I asked for the hull ID to do an insurance request and a history that two things began to happen:

1) He suddenly had sea trials that would take up all day, or other errands that never slowed our communications prior, now I go days without any updates at all...

and...

2) He began saying "there's a lot of interest in this boat, I suggest you quickly send in the contract and deposit to bind this up."

when I refused until I had my questions answered...

# 1 above began to happen.

Glad you pointed that out, because even though it was staring me in the face, I didn't put the time line together.

 

[studlymandingo]

Re: Used Boat Broker, am I expecting too much?

Sounds like TERRIBLE business practice to me. I think everyone here is in agreement; this is not a company you want to do business with!

SHADY​

 

[Apathetic]

Re: Used Boat Broker, am I expecting too much?

I am listening to everyone, and I have begun to move on looking at others, but I did get a new reply to my question asking why they won't give me the hull ID to run the report and get my insurance quote. I thought I'd share it. Also, from what I can tell, this brokerage is pretty big, not some Mom and Pop with two boats. But, I sure was treated far better by Smith Mountain than by this, for now, anonymous company.

So, this is probably an overdramitization by me, but I just got a reply where it's almost like the hull ID is held hostage until he gets the signed contract and deposit from me, which I will not do, as I said, until my questions are answered and I believe the boat is worth me paying for a proper survey by a reputable company (for I will not buy a boat unless it's surveyed or seen personally by me, and I cannot see this boat personally). I don't have the money in my budget to just survey a boat for the heck of it, hence why I asked basic questions first, like hours, etc. Here is just a part of his reply:

"We generally do not get the Hull ID until we get the Bill of Sale part of a transaction."

more

"....however many brokerage firms limit some proprietary information such as hull id until they are into and through the offering process and actually into an accepted offer with full client registration, id and a purchase and sale agreement in place."

Well, gee, the reason I have the contract that you sent me signed currently in my hand, the reason I have the agreed upon deposit check written out in my hand is that I'm waiting on just a few questions answered and, um, the hull ID so I can run a report.

Am I, are we, really expected to sign the contract and deposit first and then once I'm knotted up into this I have "permission" to run the history?!

He knows very well that I've had this contract signed and deposit signed and ready to return once my questions are answered.

So anyway, that's an update for those interested. As I've said, I've basically moved on, and have contacted another boat this evening. :crossfingers:

 

[studlymandingo]

Re: Used Boat Broker, am I expecting too much?

"We generally do not get the Hull ID until we get the Bill of Sale part of a transaction."

Am I, are we, really expected to sign the contract and deposit first and then once I'm knotted up into this I have "permission" to run the history?!

That sounds like someone with something to hide to me. I mean are you buying a beater for $500 or something?

Glad to hear you are looking elsewhere; this guy sounds like he's sittin' in his office waiting on you with a jar of vaseline!​

 

[BoatAddiction]

Re: Used Boat Broker, am I expecting too much?

One more thing: That contract should HAVE the hull ID on it already. How can one be expected to sign a contract without the ID? That would be open ended and could legally mean that they expect you to proceed on the purchase on any ol' boat that happens to be the same model and year that you're looking at.

I've participated in several purchase contracts and they always had the hull ID (and often the IDs of the engines) on page 1 of the document.

Good luck on your continuing search.

 

[Scoop]

Re: Used Boat Broker, am I expecting too much?

I agree with boat addiction.

The hull ID should be on the contract. If it is not, then he is trying to prevent you from running a history or trying to pull a bait and switch. Nobody should ever put a deposit down on a boat, car, or anything else unless it can be positively ID'ed. The only way to do positively ID is to have the Hull ID, VIN, or serial number depending on what is being bought.

You would have no recourse to get your money back because you could not prove what you put the deposit on. They could stick any boat that matched that description.

Be glad you are walking away from this deal. I would never contact this broker again unless it was to tell him that you are no longer interested in the boat because he will not give you the hull ID and that his business practices seem suspect. I would also look up the business using the Better Business Bureau website to see how many complaints he has had filed against him.

By the way, does he wear plaid pants, white shoes, and have grease in his hair?

Don't laugh, I honestly saw a car salesman just like that a few weeks ago. He tried to sell me a new van when I was dropping off my van to get the tranny replaced under warranty. Yeah I'd buy another one.... not!

 

[Apathetic]

Re: Used Boat Broker, am I expecting too much?

Thank goodness I listened to you people on here...the other boat we found yesterday is working much better so far and we may be putting a contract on it in the next day or so. Communication has been much better (though it's a tough situation for the seller) and I'm hoping this time things will run smoother. I'll keep you up to date as things go along.

 

[Apathetic]

Re: Used Boat Broker, am I expecting too much?

I don't know for sure if this is the final update, but I figured for anyone that was interested or whatever, I would make one I think is the final update:

Last night I wrote an email basically telling them that due to the lack of communication and more importantly the concern that they were hiding the hull ID for reasons that were bad, we had moved on (and we have) to another same model boat one year newer. I didn't particularly burn bridges, but I also made it clear that I was very unhappy with the events as they unfolded and found them to be untrustworthy. I wished them success on selling the boat and told them I was sure it would sell quickly as the broker had told me many times when I would ask for my simple questions to be answered "you need to put down an offer so we can bind this up. The boat has had tremendous interest and won't last long."

This morning I got a reply with the hull ID, lol, and all of the improvements the seller had made. So, apparently walking away was what it took to get the information I wanted. If he was protecting the interest of the owner, and I've just told him, basically, that I'm no longer interested, it seems strange he would give the hull ID now. :shrug: The broker also blamed the seller for the poor communication.... The one plus that I give this broker, is that we were able to work really well on a deal that I feel was very much in my favor, but after that, everything went downhill fast...

I want to take the time here to sincerely thank every single one of you who entered this thread (and you, too, Chris TGO) for telling me to run, run away now from this. As you could probably tell, I was hell for leather in working out a deal on this boat at first, and it was a large part you all that saved me on that. Thanks!

 

[studlymandingo]

Re: Used Boat Broker, am I expecting too much?

Kinda funny the way you got what you wanted when the broker realized he wasn't getting what he wanted!

Sounds like you found a deal better suited to you anyway. Let's see the pics when you get her home.​