V4 140 OMC Leaking crankcase - JB WELD??

imported_Paul_H

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
May 1, 2003
Messages
35
Re: V4 140 OMC Leaking crankcase - JB WELD??

The air bypass holes and idle holes in the butterflies are designed to work with the carburation of the engine.<br /><br />It doesn't take much air to change from properly carburated to lean. O/b's aren't as critical to carb as highly tuned race engines, but from my experience racing two strokes, it doesn't take much tweaking on the jets to go from just right to too lean. You are going about it the opposite way by adding air to the mix.<br /><br />Think of it this way, your other 3 cylinders are all being properly carburated, but the one cylinder with the leak will be running lean, as it is being carburated differently, specifically, leaner. Internal combustion engines, especially two strokes have a narrow range of air fuel mix that produces proper burning. Two much fuel and a two stroke sounds like a 4 stroke, too little fuel and the engine overheats.<br /><br />I can understand using a quickie fix if I found the leak on a trip, and needed to get back to shore, but can't see running the engine in its condition, especially after the time and $ you put into rebuilding it.<br /><br />Think about this, would you run the engine with a falty water pump? Would you run the engine with a falty oil injector? If no to either question, then consider your crankcase leak as just as critical.<br /><br />Be thankful you've found the leak and can fix it before damaging the engine. Much better then burning up that piston, then finding the leak.
 

sparkroost

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Mar 23, 2003
Messages
312
Re: V4 140 OMC Leaking crankcase - JB WELD??

My response was a little harsh, I apologize.<br /><br />JB weld is a great product. Devcon is what should be used for aluminum repairs though. Cracks I have filled before, no big deal.. but a seam or mating surfaces is not on the "recommended" list.<br /><br />Another thing that comes to mind is the fact you can't idle at less than 1500. Maybe there is more than just that 1 spot it's leaking... you may have not found all the leaks! Did the crank spin freely after assembly? You should be able to spin the flywheel with 1 finger with the entire assembly together and the spark plugs out. You may not have gotten the center bearing on the pin correctly. Maybe the sealing surface was not clean before the gel seal was applied. You might have had high spots in the areas where the bolts go in. I counter sink all bolt holes and figure 8 all mating surfaces.<br /><br />I would hate to see you blow that motor up! If you keep running it.. you will.<br /><br />How many times have you run it like that? did you look at the plug for the suspected cylinder and compare to the others?<br /><br />After this "fix" dries.. Start the motor and see if you still get coughing and sneezing. If so... you still have a leak. If you get too many fumes in the cowling.... all it's gonna take is one arc and POW....<br /><br />BTW.. when you had it out and running at high speed.. did you hear and funny noises, vibrations? That crank is not cheap!
 

adam12

Cadet
Joined
May 18, 2003
Messages
27
Re: V4 140 OMC Leaking crankcase - JB WELD??

Sparkroost - thank you for these constructive comments..<br /><br />I checked out the Devcon, 3M, JB weld and Loctite web sites. I'm not sure why I exactly why I chose the JB - the aluminim filler in the Devcon caught my eye as a more marine suited material. I think a few of the "fixed my dragster manifold on race-day" stories on the JB weld site reeled me in. <br /><br />The assembly turned like a dream with the plugs out.<br /><br />I should have figure - 8'd and your countersinking deburr would have been a great addition to the process.<br /><br />Oddly, the OMC service manual that I followed, had much less in the way of guidance regarding the case mating process than the clymer book (which I really didn't use during the rebuild).<br /><br />When I checked it out (clymer) the other day, it mentioned all kind of great tips like using plate glass to check for flatness.<br /><br />In the end, I think I was probably a bit light with the gel seal.<br /><br />Regarding the idle - I'll have to see, I re-did the link and sync the other day after doing the JB weld job. This time I removed the carb cover and noted that the upper carb butterfly was not closing as much as it could. (I've been lead to believe that it doesn't take much of a leak.) Maybe the combination of the crankcase leak and the leaking butterfly combined to give me the idle issue.<br /><br />Did it sound funny at high speed?? I don't think so - to tell you the truth, I now know too much about the inner workings of my motor. "Ignorance was bliss" as they say...now I'm constatly wondering if I left out a needle bearing, forgot to tighten one of the 100 bolts, or messed up the carb rebuilds.<br /><br />I plan on checking the plugs for obvious hints of lean running..that's a good idea.<br /><br />I've made the mistake of making a hobby out of the motor that I need to have fun. It's like tinkering with your every-day car..not so fun if you mess up the new diff lockers and end up taking the bus for a week..<br /><br />Time for a second motor - that way I can take the time and rebuild it right - swap'em when needed..<br /><br />Or perhaps that Yamaha 4-stroke is finally calling my name..
 

Hooty

Rear Admiral
Joined
Oct 2, 2001
Messages
4,496
Re: V4 140 OMC Leaking crankcase - JB WELD??

Quit sniveling, Sparkroost. You're just afraid the JB Weld might work. :D <br /><br />c/6<br /><br />Hooty
 

sparkroost

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Mar 23, 2003
Messages
312
Re: V4 140 OMC Leaking crankcase - JB WELD??

hehe... I'd be pretty amazed that your peanut butter sandwich landed on the up side. Myself... it would drive me nutz not knowing... I am in a dangerous area for large swells and shallow water. I had to drive home once with a bad lower bearing and 2 wasted pistons. Took me 4 hours to get home and I went through some 7 ft. waves. If I had no motor at all.. things may not have went so well in getting home. <br /><br />I hope it works for you with no added complications. If it does, it would seem your peanut butter sandwich was caught before it landed top side down!
 

Hooty

Rear Admiral
Joined
Oct 2, 2001
Messages
4,496
Re: V4 140 OMC Leaking crankcase - JB WELD??

I'm just curious to see if it'll work or not. I've done some pretty amazing stuff with JB Weld.<br />Stuffed crankcases, filled pistons, crazy things like that and it worked.<br /><br />c/6<br /><br />Hooty
 

bonitoman

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jul 9, 2002
Messages
292
Re: V4 140 OMC Leaking crankcase - JB WELD??

HI, I am sorry to inform you that the crankcase has to be split and resealed. The most important reason is you now have fuel that can be ignited by a spark. I rebuild engines and do not use gelseal. I like pematex motoseal. Gelseal will harden when the two halves are compressed together. Motoseal will start to harden within 30 minutes and cure in 24 hours. Plan on taking a day to do the whole job. Clean your surfaces good with acetone before using the motoseal. This way you know when it dries it will be hard unlike with gel seal. Good Luck
 

Chinewalker

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Aug 19, 2001
Messages
8,902
Re: V4 140 OMC Leaking crankcase - JB WELD??

Because you don't know exactly why it's leaking, any band-aid job may or may not fix it. You're not going to have perfect fishing weather every day, so next day you have crappy weather, dig in, fix it right, and fuhgetaboutit... As was mentioned, you can have it done inside of a day and have it going in time for evening fishing...<br />- Scott
 

adam12

Cadet
Joined
May 18, 2003
Messages
27
Re: V4 140 OMC Leaking crankcase - JB WELD??

The input is all appeciated..<br /><br />In the interest of science - I'm still waiting to see how the JB weld is doing..<br /><br />It should be dry by now, and I'll be out Saturday Morning.<br /><br />Digging in and getting it done in a day is probably not a bad idea - I mean I can get up at 4 am for fishin', why not for hauling out and working on the thing - I'd probably have it apart by 9 am and back together by 3pm (assuming I did not forget to buy a needed gasket!)<br /><br />I did use anti-seize on all the bolts and replaced most of them with new ones (that wasn't a mistake, was it?)<br /><br />We shall see...<br /><br />as they say : "one test is worth a thousand expert opinions"<br /><br />I'm still waiting for the "tried it and it didn't work" reply.<br /><br />Thanks again to all
 

SeaMasterZ@aol.com

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
May 21, 2003
Messages
1,924
Re: V4 140 OMC Leaking crankcase - JB WELD??

Everyone has a "I knew a fella that ..." and here is mine, I knew a fella that was in a situation much like yours, no time for fun, and he sent a rod thru his crankcase wall. He yanked the piston out, and built up a fix with Marine Tex, sealing off the crank. Of course, it ran rough, three cylinder four bangers arent known for smoothness - but that Marine Tex didnt leak at all. (I didnt see the motor apart, but did see the glob O marine tex.)<br /><br />I was so impressed by this that when I bought a boat for its trailer (It had a bow eye area smashed out by the winch)I decided to try to fix the boat up instead - I backed it up with some wood and built it up with marine tex - 16 years later its still good as new, doesnt budge when I crank her back on to the trailer.<br /><br />however I digress ... would it hurt to yank the plug on that leaking cylinder and let it hit on three cylinders? or would the gas oil mix wash the lube off the walls and really do a number on it?<br /><br />Its late and the ol bean is shutting down, just figured I would toss that in.<br /><br />Ray
 

G DANE

Commander
Joined
Nov 24, 2001
Messages
2,476
Re: V4 140 OMC Leaking crankcase - JB WELD??

Hi adam12<br /><br />I´d like to know how your solution worked out. For two reasons. The first to learn how much "first aid" one can expect from JB weld or similar. The second is if the leak is causing your iddle problem. I rebuild a 25HP and forgot to turque or lock the screws on the intake. After some time it started sneezing. I returqued and viola - iddled smooth.
 

adam12

Cadet
Joined
May 18, 2003
Messages
27
Re: V4 140 OMC Leaking crankcase - JB WELD??

I will know in the morning!<br /><br />I will for sure feedback.
 

adam12

Cadet
Joined
May 18, 2003
Messages
27
Re: V4 140 OMC Leaking crankcase - JB WELD??

Well - proved the weatherman wrong and had a great morning on the water.<br /><br />My boat started on the first crank and idled at 900 out-of-gear and 700 in-gear tied to the dock.<br /><br />Idles as smooth as silk.<br /><br />Ran around all morning - pulled the cover when I got back in and had the samll beautiful stripe of JB weld - with no sign of oil, gas or leaking.<br /><br />So far, so good, albeit only 2 hours into the repair..<br /><br />I'll feedback on the next trip!
 
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