Vacuum bagging questions

[BrandonHa]

Re: Vacuum bagging questions

I've got no idea if this pump will work for your application, but I picked up a 115VAC, 1/4 hp Thomas TA-0040-V rotary vane vacuum pump at a swap meet for a project of mine that never got off the ground. Stats on it can be found here:

http://www.lxpumps.com/THOMAS/xp/Taskair1_6.pdf

Also goes by model number 291246, it is the one with the filters.

This pump has never been used, it hasn't even yet been wired up for AC.

It's just taking up space and I'm in the midst of garage-cleanout, so if you want it, shoot me a ridiculously lowball offer via PM. Let me know zip code for shipping.

EDIT: if any of you guys with vacuum bagging experience can chime in on whether this pump might work for the application, please do. I won't be offended if this is not the right machine. Thanks.

Yeah it has me very curious as well. I see the specs on your pump and it looks ok but thats where I get confused. Lots of pumps on CL and Ebay that look ok but I cant find anything about specifics other then the Gast pumps.

Someone?

 

[BobsGlasstream]

Re: Vacuum bagging questions

http://www.gd-thomas.com/article.aspx?id=8780
http://www.gastmfg.com/
Two places to get specs., the different types, and standard applications.
Bob

 

[ajgraz]

Re: Vacuum bagging questions

Yeah it has me very curious as well. I see the specs on your pump and it looks ok but thats where I get confused. Lots of pumps on CL and Ebay that look ok but I cant find anything about specifics other then the Gast pumps.

Someone?

Well if interested, here's some photos:

 

[BrandonHa]

Re: Vacuum bagging questions

Ajgraz, thank you for the offer and I have really given it a ton of thought but I am going to buy one of these. Hopefully someone looking in to vacuum bagging stumbles on to this thread and buys your pump.

http://www.veneersupplies.com/products/Project-EVS-Auto-Cycling-Pump-Vacuum-Press-Kit.html

Will more then likely buy the Gast 5.5 CFM Pump
http://www.veneersupplies.com/products/Vacuum-Pump---Gast-55-CFM-120-VAC-Condition-New.html

 

[BrandonHa]

Re: Vacuum bagging questions

BrandonHa,
I'm not going to bother repeating all the good information already posted. I will just give you a web site that will give you some information to build a vac system and you can scale it up or down to fit your needs.
http://www.joewoodworker.com/veneering/EVS/concept.htm
Good luck and have fun.
Bob

Bob, thanks for the link! I am going to go ahead and buy from Joe. I really like that set up and the fact that it will be easy enough to change any part of it. Thats pretty cool. Cant wait to get the parts and put it together! (Guess I have to order it first )

Have you had the privilege of using one of Joe's EVS Kits?

I guess if I ever need to Veneer something I will be good to go

 

[BobsGlasstream]

Re: Vacuum bagging questions

BrandonHa,
I used his plans to build my vac system along with a vac press, which is on the same site. I did not buy the kit. I got almost all of my parts from local sources. I saved some money that way.
Here is a pick of mine.

You can see pic's of my Vac press in the link in my signature, WoodWorking.
I bought off ebay for $75. It's a Thomas Wobble pump. Works great.
Take Care
Bob

 

[BrandonHa]

Re: Vacuum bagging questions

Well my stuff should be here on Friday. Pretty excited to get it put together. I did not order the pump yet though. I will order it on Thursday I suppose. Still a bit confused on what pump to buy but I am thinking I will just step up to the plate and buy the new Gast from http://www.veneersupplies.com

I guess I will have enough time to have the rest of it assembled before the motor gets here.

I was browsing around our local hardware store, I think a guy really could buy just about everything needed at a good hardware store. Well minus the vacuum pump anyway

 

[BobsGlasstream]

Re: Vacuum bagging questions

Hello BrandonHa,
Glad to see you moving along.
there are a couple other items that you may have trouble finding, The Mac valve and the vac regulator ( which is an Air Logic valve). I found them at a local industrial supplier. If I was at home I could get you the part numbers, but if you ordered the kit they should be included.
Before You order your pump I would recommend you check out ebay. You can find the same pump for a lot less money. I have seen them go for under $50. You can get the part number and check out the specs on the first links I gave you.
Well, Good luck
Bob

 

[BrandonHa]

Re: Vacuum bagging questions

Hello Brandon..

Gast makes some good pumps ( no you dont need a seperate pump/motor ). You will have to decide how big of a pump for yourself .. research the pump.

I agree that bagging is fun

I know whats needed has been said but I will reiterate..

1. Pump.... something that can run overnight if needed.
2. Manifold with check valves for multiple hose hook ups.
3. Buy a box of nylon hose.
4. Frogs and quick connectors for hose attachment.
5. Bagging film, Breather material, Bleeder material, possibibly peel-ply, and Bagging tape ( the real bagging tape ).
6. Possible Resin catch if doing poly ( Ill explain if needed later )

The biggest suggestion I have is learn how to "dart" or "pleat" .. meaning your corners where you have to kinda hunch up bagging film. Once you got that down your leaks will be lowered greatly.

One other must buy if your going to do a large project is an ampified "leak" sniffer. Basically a unit with earphones and a device that looks like a stud finder with a plastic snout attached.. turn that baby on and you will find your leakes very quickly.

I agree with knowing how large of an area your talking about would be helpfull.

Hope this helps.

YD.

Hey Yacht Dr,

Can you give me a bit more info on the leak detector? That sounds like a very useful tool. Especially after reading Erikgreens post on vacuum bagging and all of the leaks.

The first few parts should be delivered in a couple hours. I am pretty excited to start putting it together. I am going through item by item in Ebay right now trying to figure out what pump to. Bobs advice on buying the pump from Ebay seems like it is very good advice. I am going to have a pump ordered by the end of the day, Just dont know what one yet

If a guy wanted to do Vacuum infusion, would 5.5 cfm or 28" Hg be enough? I have this pressure pot gun that I sort of glued the lid shut on accident It might make a good resin trap if I can get it apart.

I dont really have any plans to do infusion because I think the vacuum bagging is going to be a big enough learning curve for me. Its just more of a curious thing. Lets say I wanted to infuse my livewell and it is 32" l x 25" w x 9" depth. The infusion questions really are just me being curious. I dont have any plans of infusing anything in the near future

This thread has been really good reading and advice, really appreciate everyones opinions!

 

[erikgreen]

Re: Vacuum bagging questions

28 inches is more than enough... for most jobs you won't want that much because you'd suck too much resin out.

You don't need to pull a hard vacuum for most things, just 20-26 inches.

Erik

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Vacuum bagging questions

Ultrasonic Detector .. something like this..

http://www.nex-flow.com/ultrasonic_leak_detector.htm

or this..

http://www.ultraphonics.com/

If you search around you may find something more bottom end..

Or try a stethoscope ( Ive had little luck with these when leaks need to be found quickly ).

YD.

 

[BrandonHa]

Re: Vacuum bagging questions

Hey Erik, I was reading your thread that you started on vacuum bagging and your setup. Is your table still working out pretty good?

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=366808&highlight=gast

I picked up a sheet of 3/4 MDF today, its going to be 10x better then these plastic tables I have been using. Holy crap is it heavy though. It was $27 for a full sheet, so I dont think really I could go wrong with buying it.

Yacht Doctor, thanks man! From what I have learned those could be invaluable. I think I will start with a stethoscope

I was expecting my parts to be sitting on the steps when I got home but no such luck. UPS had said today was the day it would arrive. But then when I look at the tracking on their website it shows that its stuck in Illinois do to severe weather. But its been saying that for 3 days now. So I called UPS and the lady said it would be arriving today but its 4:15 and nothing. So hopefully it shows up on Monday. I dont have a pump yet but am looking forward to putting together everything else

 

[BrandonHa]

Re: Vacuum bagging questions

So I bought the Gast 5.5cfm pump. Been working on putting it together off and on today. Wishing I had a drill press, but thats another story for another day.

Was wondering if you guys could share some of your materials and where you get them? The inexpensive stuff that I might start off maybe?

So ya, what are some of you using for your bagging projects?

 

[BobsGlasstream]

Re: Vacuum bagging questions

BrandonHa,
If you are just wanting something to play with to get a feel for your system and do some projects on the cheap, go to HD or Lowe's and pick up a couple heavy duty vinyl shower curtains. Depending on what you are doing they won't last that long but will give you an idea of what you are doing before you spring for the reg. material. Keep in mind that they are only $6.00 each, and not $160.00 for good bagging material.
I know some folks that swear by them. I have used them but only at the beginning and in a pinch.
Good luck
Bob

 

[BrandonHa]

Re: Vacuum bagging questions

Thats exactly what I was looking for Bob, thanks! Just so I can "practice" before spending more money.

Is there any cheaper alternate to peel ply, breather cloth or the 2 sided tape?

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Vacuum bagging questions

Thats exactly what I was looking for Bob, thanks! Just so I can "practice" before spending more money.

Is there any cheaper alternate to peel ply, breather cloth or the 2 sided tape?

Hello m8..

You should be able to buy bagging film by the foot . IMHO I would only use the proper Bag film and Tape ( not 2 sided tape ).

Breather material can be subsituded with some kind of Joans fabric fluffy fabric ( its only used to apply pressure equally in hard to get to spots )

You dont "need" peel ply.. its basically used for post application lams.. meaning you technically do not need to prep your ( polyester ) glass after peelyply .. just peel and relam .. (saves on grinding). USED for small model RC stuff or Large construction vac bagged applications. Though you can use it for any multiple lam repairs where grinding is hard to reach for reprep/reglass.

Check out my recore job here.. as you can see I did not peelyply. Nor did I Breather the whole thing ( just at my frog locations .. but I didnt have corners where you would want breather and bleeder material ).

The connectors (frogs) and quick hookups are kinda pricey though.

http://s699.photobucket.com/albums/vv352/YachtDr/?albumview=slideshow#/grid

YD.

PS. I used a medium grade Gast pump without a trap ( just replaced those hoses after the job was done

 

[BrandonHa]

Re: Vacuum bagging questions

Hello m8..

You should be able to buy bagging film by the foot . IMHO I would only use the proper Bag film and Tape ( not 2 sided tape ).

Breather material can be subsituded with some kind of Joans fabric fluffy fabric ( its only used to apply pressure equally in hard to get to spots )

You dont "need" peel ply.. its basically used for post application lams.. meaning you technically do not need to prep your ( polyester ) glass after peelyply .. just peel and relam .. (saves on grinding). USED for small model RC stuff or Large construction vac bagged applications. Though you can use it for any multiple lam repairs where grinding is hard to reach for reprep/reglass.

Check out my recore job here.. as you can see I did not peelyply. Nor did I Breather the whole thing ( just at my frog locations .. but I didnt have corners where you would want breather and bleeder material ).

The connectors (frogs) and quick hookups are kinda pricey though.

http://s699.photobucket.com/albums/vv352/YachtDr/?albumview=slideshow#/grid

YD.

PS. I used a medium grade Gast pump without a trap ( just replaced those hoses after the job was done

Yacht Dr.

That is amazing work. How long you been doing this? I had to drag my wife and kids to the computer to show them.

I got my pump all finished today. I spent a few hours trying to figure out the wiring. I kept ending up with 2 extra wires after connecting the Vacuum sensor and the Mac valve. If I would of read step 14 I would of saw that they were both grounds and go ahead and hook them up to the switch. Duh!

lol, live and learn right?

So here is my handy work. Ignore the extra holes, that was the engineering departments mistake Oh and ignore the crooked handle, that was the router departments screw up. haha

I fired it up and set it to pull 22". No bags, just testing the plumbing. It stayed at 22" all evening and did not drop so much as an inch. That made me happy to know that all worked good.

But when I let some of the vacuum out in order to see if the pump kicked on, It had a bit of trouble starting a couple times. I figure its because this pump cant start with any pressure on it. No big deal, I think I just need to tighten up a couple fittings to that small tank you see in the picture. If I dropped it down to 5" hg the pump kicked on fine. But around 15" or higher the pump wanted to start, just a bit to much pressure I think. No worries from me though. I thought it went pretty well considering I have never done anything like this before.

 

[lowvlot]

Re: Vacuum bagging questions

Nice job. You better call a meet with your design and router departments though. lol

 

[Yacht Dr.]

Re: Vacuum bagging questions

Thanks Brandon..

Ive been doing this for 21 years ( and still love my job ).

Its not really so much of how Ive been at it..Its more from who(s) I Learned from. Masters at what they did.

YD.

PS. NOW THATS a PUMP . Remember that depending on what your trying to bag you dont need to Suck the daylights out of it. I installed a simple Cheater valve inline so I could relieve the pressure when needed.

 

[BobsGlasstream]

Re: Vacuum bagging questions

BrandonHa,
Nice looking pump, I've seen one like it somewhere.

Yacht Dr.
That's some very nice work. Great craftsmanship.
Take care
Bob