Valve cupping? why? Anyone?

rodbolt

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Re: Valve cupping? why? Anyone?

hahahahaahah
well its friday, time for a 12 pack of dot remover :).
 

party barge

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Re: Valve cupping? why? Anyone?

As I read all the reasons why valves cup in 5.7's it makes me wonder some more...Couldn't one of the reasons for heads to overheat but not the bottom end have something to do with poor water circulation and or feed? I recently cooked mine as some of you know and I feel it was due to a "plastic bag in the water" pick up. It seems it fed some water to the motor but not enough. I have torched heads but the bottom seems fine, oil color and all, heck, there ain't no color, it's clear. Can't a marine motor maintain a water level in the block and not heads in areas when minimal water is present. This would be an open system <<<<see, I'm learnin'..LOL
 

rodbolt

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Re: Valve cupping? why? Anyone?

your question beats me. sometimes ya get lucky. most times not.
water under pressure boils at a higher temp than no pressure.
take away the water pressure and even minimal flow boils.
cant tell you if the ring tension just took a hit nor if a piston skirt is collapsed. only way to tell that is further dissasembly and inspection.
 

JustJason

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Re: Valve cupping? why? Anyone?

captnjason is rolling me over with laughter.
he is another that did one school and remains clueless.

Huh rodbolt??? care to explain?
Is there something in my post you don't agree with?? I re-read what i wrote. Still looks like the most solid advice on this thread.
 

Bondo

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Re: Valve cupping? why? Anyone?

Is there something in my post you don't agree with??

Ayuh,...... I'm not Rodbolt,......
But,.....
I Disagree with about Everything you Said........

Why would anybody want to spend 3Xs the amount necessary to build a Chevy motor with Mercruiser Parts,..??..??..??.......

Still looks like the most solid advice on this thread.

I Disagree with That the Most,.......
See Above for Why.......

And This,.........
Forget about the vortec this and vortec that (just a marketing term anyways for "hey us GM guys came up with a new block/head design that doesn't blow as often as the old ones")

Is Pure Bull$h!t.......
 

rude50

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Re: Valve cupping? why? Anyone?

Mikdee et. al. those pushing the edlebrock 1409:

Is that a waber look-a-like?

The good people at Merc. while helping me clooge the street holly steadfastly pushed me to their 3310-807262a2 (weber 9781s). They used this 4bbl on 96 to 98 350mag, 350mag ski, 5.7LX, & MIE's. Which are pretty close to my soon to be reincarnated 2000 vortec 5.7L alpha.

Does anyone know the jets and rods to use on a rochester 4BBl for a 5.7l vortec.
 

JustJason

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Re: Valve cupping? why? Anyone?

looks like the flame war has begun....

Why would anybody want to spend 3Xs the amount necessary to build a Chevy motor with Mercruiser Parts,..??..??..??.......

first of all some of us (EDITED OUT)

Careful captJason, that comment was not called for nor tolerated

Don S
Moderator


Who are you to say what is "necessary" and what is not?? Unless your from fon-du-lac and your a merc engineer, you are not qualified to say that.
second of all... i NEVER said you had to order merc factory parts. I DID say is you take the serial ## and order parts for that block. You don't go and order.... say, (and im just making a point because i don't know what's exactly on this block,) 53cc 350 vortec heads if merc specifys 68cc non vortec heads.

I Disagree with That the Most,.......
See Above for Why.......

And This,.........

Quote:
Forget about the vortec this and vortec that (just a marketing term anyways for "hey us GM guys came up with a new block/head design that doesn't blow as often as the old ones")

Is Pure Bull$h!t.......


Actually, Vortec IS the marketing name for the next generation of chevy blocks. (wikipedia it if you don't believe me) All engines go through an evolution, they are engineered, and then re-engineered years later, its an ongoing process that never stops. (and this is for every manufactor) True, most (but not all) "vortec" engines make a few more ponys than the non-vortec engines that they are based off of. But really Vortec was created to make the older engines last longer. (ie~~they don't blow up as often)
Think of this... a "vortec" is NOT in chevy's high line automobile, the corvette. The ZR1 and the LS6 motors are not vortec, in fact they are designed by Mercruiser and Lotus (lotus makes `em fast, mercruiser keeps them from blowing up) and they are (or were for 10 years, can't positively say now) hand built at Mercruiser in stillwater Oklahoma.......

soooo my intelligent friend, what part of that Bull$h!t (spelled bull****) do you not agree with???
 
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Don S

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Re: Valve cupping? why? Anyone?

It's ok to disagree, but lets keep it civil.
 

JustJason

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Re: Valve cupping? why? Anyone?

Sorry Don.. =) it came out mid rant!!
 

Bondo

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Re: Valve cupping? why? Anyone?

Is that a waber look-a-like?

Ayuh,....... They're both Clones of the Carter AFB Carbs....

Does anyone know the jets and rods to use on a rochester 4BBl for a 5.7l vortec.

Don't even bother with a Rottenchester,.........

Go to the Edlebrock/ Weber/ Carter Clone.........
 

John_S

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Re: Valve cupping? why? Anyone?

Edelbrock 1409 is a 600cfm. Comes pre-calibrated to "generic" SBC marine engine. You app may vary, so tuning needs to be checked.

Weber 9781s is a 750cfm and has special 2-step rods and jets. Was not used on gen+ (vortec) engines. (TBI and MPI was)

They are not comparable for jetting purposes.
 

RCSConstruction

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Re: Valve cupping? why? Anyone?

Actually, Vortec IS the marketing name for the next generation of chevy blocks. (wikipedia it if you don't believe me) All engines go through an evolution, they are engineered, and then re-engineered years later, its an ongoing process that never stops. (and this is for every manufactor) True, most (but not all) "vortec" engines make a few more ponys than the non-vortec engines that they are based off of. But really Vortec was created to make the older engines last longer. (ie~~they don't blow up as often)
Vortec heads are very different than a standard non-vortec head, Matter of fact they are almost identical to a LT1 head with exception of reverse cooling.. Blowing up??? Tell that to many a 300,000 mile standard 350.. Vortec is not hocus pocus.



Think of this... a "vortec" is NOT in chevy's high line automobile, the corvette. The ZR1 and the LS6 motors are not vortec, in fact they are designed by Mercruiser and Lotus (lotus makes `em fast, mercruiser keeps them from blowing up) and they are (or were for 10 years, can't positively say now) hand built at Mercruiser in stillwater Oklahoma.......

Designed by Lotus and GM (joint venture) and mercury marine built because of mercury marines knowledge and skill with an all aluminum block. How did a motor designed to go in one of the fastest production cars in it's day get into the conversation? How does it make a vortec motor any "less" of a motor.
what part of that Bull$h!t (spelled bull****) do you not agree with???
Besides a bunch of useless information, all of it. Vortec heads are very different than a standard chevy head, yes they are redesigned "350" heads but not so they don't "blow up". That is PURE BS

On to the problem at hand.
You say you have the dished pistons? I thought those were for the 350 block/305 head Combo? Puts you at about 9.2-1??? They do make pistons to use 305 heads on a 350 bottom end.
Did the previous owner burn some heads up and just slap these 305's on or did the entire engine get assembled at once?
 

rude50

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Re: Valve cupping? why? Anyone?

Bond-o: Thanks for advice. But the more I read about the ten to twenty things I can experiment with on the Q-jets to fine tune (or mess up) the more I get the bug to try. So for now I'm just trolling for empirical data on Q-jets and 5.7l vortec alpha 19' boat combinations.

RCSconstruction: The details of the engine as I was lead to believe; new 20' boat in 2001 5.7l vortec alpha gen II 2bbl carb, SN: ol378057. the owner (a friend) fries engine due to shallow water in driveway. Merc dealer orders reman long block from Merc (or so I was told or believed) and swaps jewlery. This is where I think I was stupid and misslead. I saw the boat at dealer shop and with out too close of examination it looked just as I believed, New reman long block. And I assumed all 5.7l vortec parts except they went to a 4bbl carb. Freind wants bigger engine and sells me the reman with about 50 hours on it. I put it in my boat with only a slight going over (oil, plugs, valve lash, ilde mixture, timing {all to original SN: ol378057 specs}) and it ran great for another 50 or so hours in my boat. (19' searay, open bow, turnning a 14x21 prop, giving me 50 mph at about 4500 rpm, smooth water, no load) Then the tulipped valves and some investigation of casting numbers (see above posts) and here I am. I lost track of my friend and the merc mechanic. So I am trying to make the best of what I can figure out.

Thanks to this forum's pit crue I just might pull this thing out of the dumpster and enjoy it on the water.
THANKS ALL!

The compression is high (180) so i don't think the pistons were re-spec'ed for the 305 heads. Unless the block or heads were decked. I was using the wrong plugs which gave me one less cc of chamber. (maybe a hand full of lbs. more compression)

For now I think I'm going to put the engine as close to spec as possible with the exeption of the carb. I need more of an education before that cement hardens.

I'm going to start another post to see what Q-jet tuning data is out there.
 

Bondo

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Re: Valve cupping? why? Anyone?

Bond-o: Thanks for advice. But the more I read about the ten to twenty things I can experiment with on the Q-jets to fine tune (or mess up) the more I get the bug to try. So for now I'm just trolling for empirical data on Q-jets and 5.7l vortec alpha 19' boat combinations.

Ayuh,............

I guess you could keep throwing Good money after Bad with that Obsolete Rottenchester,........

Or,.......
You could click here,+ see that the AFB is a Much Easier,+ More Tuneable Carb.........

The Tuning Kit is only about $50.,+ is Packed Full of needles, springs,+ jets......
 

JustJason

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Re: Valve cupping? why? Anyone?

what have i been saying all along???? make it factory spec... then no frankenmotor.. and hopefully... no issues.

i wouldn't say rochesters are rotton... never had a probelem with 1 per say. (errr 1 that i couldn't fix) No experience with edelbrocks here but i can say that finding jet spec's on a rochester will be easier.
 

rude50

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Re: Valve cupping? why? Anyone?

Bond-o thanks again. The linked pdf gives me a good idea of the methods of tuning an Edelbrock. Their graphs and suggested combo's would be invaluable for guiding subsequent selections.
 

Speakrdude

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Re: Valve cupping? why? Anyone?

Did you find your cause yet. I think I am having #7 Tulip problem again. I will know after a compression check. It will be the third (or fourth) and the last time on this Frankenstein 70's model/way too high compression POS. I just want it to run without melting. !!!
 

Benny1963

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Re: Valve cupping? why? Anyone?

i have run 305 heads on 350s on a few motors they are 58cc
they will work on a 350 but are not good for hi rpm they boost comp
you would have to retime engine and have proper oct but they wont stand up to long periods of hi rpm
im a car guy so im watching this post to learn
some mid year center bolt heads are not vortec they simply went to the center bolts for leakage probs with restrictor in you will have higher cyl head temps ,
thanks for the info im getting from yall
b1963
 

Mkos1980

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Re: Valve cupping? why? Anyone?

Anybody noticed he was using the wrong sparkplug for his motor? Those heads require the MR43T the LTS's were extended reach for the vortecs.
 

Don S

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Re: Valve cupping? why? Anyone?

He has Mercriser engine SN 0L378057, it has Vortec heads, and calls for the long reach plugs. The thread is also 3 months old.
 
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