VHF Antennas

[kbetts]

I am wanting to install my Uniden Solara DSC radio in my boat (2000 Crownline 205 BR) this winter, and was wanting some information on a good antenna for the $ and which length would be best for me. I will be using the radio mostly on the Mississippi river and some of the larger lakes in Il. and Mo. I am also pushing towards the rail mount over the deck mount, any conciderations on either? Also, does the FM radio adapter to the VHF antenna work well? This is the adapter that will let you use the VHF and FM radio at the same time. Thanks,

 

[xtraham]

Re: VHF Antennas

any name brand antenna will be fine just remember height is might, so the longer/higher the better, mount it as high as you can for your application where to mount is your option, the rail mounts work fine as long as you use the stainless not the plastic, combined antennas are not efficient, use separate antennas for any receivers/transmitters i.e.: VHF,am/fm, CB etc...

 

[kbetts]

Re: VHF Antennas

I found a few antennas here on I boats that should work just fine for me, and I will stay clear of the adapter for the FM. Thanks for the help.

 

[Boatist]

Re: VHF Antennas

I agree with not useing adapter but that is about all. You can make FM radio antenna very easy but better to get a radio with a CD.

Yes any Name brand you can use but there is a big difference in quality and performance. You do not say the size of your boat so I am assumeing it in the 15 to 25 foot rance. A boat in this range works best with a 6DB gain 8 Foot antenna. The 9DB gain antenna have too narrow of transmit beam so when the boat rocks and rolls you loose signal.

A tipical boat with a 8 foot antenna mounted on the deck or rail about 3 feet above the water has a range of about 5 to 6 miles. So boat to boat on the open water you are looking at 10 to 12 miles max. Out here in the West I have talked to the Coast Guard many times at over 80 miles. That is because the coast guard mounts their antennas on top of 3000 foot high mountains.

Today I would say pretty hard to buy a bad fixed mount radio. The one you pick is becoming popular.

Antenna on the other hand have a big difference in quality. Lots of good brands but I have choosen Shakespeare.
Differences you will see in the mount. Some come with a nylon connection to the antenna mount. Well Nylon out in the sun does not last very long. If you cover the mount when not in use you may get 10 years but if you do not then 1 or 2 is more likely. Crome cover brass much better and in fresh water will last a long time and look good. For Saltwater then only way to go is a Stainless steel mount.

Antenna it self there is also a big difference. Some are 3/8 inch and flop around like a wet noodel. These model usually use a peice of tuned coax cable for the radiator and are not very efficent and since the antenna is always flexing do not last long. Better antennas are 1 inch at the base and have a copper, brass or silver plated brass radiator. They hold up much longer and from My experience Receive twice as good.

Cheaper antennas use RG58 coax which has more loss than the RG8X coax used on better antennas. Since most power boats have short Coax runs this is not a big factor but I believe RG8X also holds up better.

I started on my boat with a Shakespeare 497 and after 3 years my radio did not work very well. I up graded to a Shakespear 5225 and My radio had never ever worked that good. Today I would not buy less.

Any of the Shakespeare Galaxy serries are great antennas.

When installing try to get your Antenna 3 feet or more away from the radio. I have seen many closer and worked ok but not reccomemded. Do not cut your Coax less than 9 feet. When the connector is on and it is all done check with a SWR meter on 1 watt to make sure you do not have a short or open in the connector. Since marine antennas are all 1/2 wave 50 ohms cable length is not a factor.

I tried a rail mount when I first started but had many problems. In the ocean it would some times slip and the antenna fall over. I solved this with a rubber gasket and some gasket sealer to stick it in place. Later still did not like the way the cover fit over the mount so got a stainless steel mount and drilled thoese hated holes in the deck near the corner of my windsheild. Backed it up with a good backing plated and bolted in place. Very happy with the Stainless steel Deck mount. Make sure before you mount on the rail or deck that the antenns will lay down flat on something for travel and storage.

Make sure to read up on the rules of use and know 16 is only for calling and distress. 16 also must be monitored when radio is on but not in use. 22A is for comm with the Coast Guard. Channel 68, 69 and 72 are for non commerical use and good channel to use after making contact.

Good Luck and EnJoy your new radio.

 

[Gone]

Re: VHF Antennas

Make sure to read up on the rules of use ...etc.

Including the part of the FCC rules that forbid a non FCC licensed person from installing/replacing an antenna on a VHF marine radio.
Your other information was very good, though.

CD

 

[kbetts]

Re: VHF Antennas

I appreciate all the information Boatist. You have some very helpful information here that will make my decision less expensive in the long run. Thanks to all.

 

[KaGee]

Re: VHF Antennas

All things considered, the Shakespeare 5206C is a great value for the average power boat. I have sold hundreds of them in a previous career life and never had any problems.

The main problem that most boaters encounter is running the coax and removing/reinstalling the PL-259 RF connector. If you do not feel comfortable in soldering a new connector on, install the antenna, run the coax and take the boat to a marine electronics or radio shop to have the connector soldered on. Either that or drill a hole in the deck big enough for the connector to fit through. Previous owner did that on my boat and never covered the hole! :^

 

[xtraham]

Re: VHF Antennas

Make sure to read up on the rules of use ...etc.

Including the part of the FCC rules that forbid a non FCC licensed person from installing/replacing an antenna on a VHF marine radio.
Your other information was very good, though.

CD

please show me this reg............

 

[Boatist]

Re: VHF Antennas

I agree Keith Shakespeare 5206-C look ok to me also. Has RG58 coax but with the length of most runs not a real factor. I would not buy the 5206-N with the nylon mount. My 5225 was not that high when I bought it but now they have added filters coatings on the element and boosted the price way up. Hey with that fish your fighting I think "your going to need a bigger boat". Jaws

I included a couple of links to Shakespeare site. I do not think that is against the rules since Iboats sells Shakespeare at a good price also.

Other brands of antenna as well out there.

You will see a formula for distance. "Square root of Antenna height times 1.42 equals distance". So you can play with the height of antenna on paper and see how much it affects distance.

Also mounting forgot to say make sure antenna is vertical when your boat is in the water. If it leans back like many install it will shorten your range foward and to the stern.


http://www.shakespeare-marine.com/antennas/ant-faq.htm

http://www.shakespeare-marine.com/antennas/antspec.htm

 

[kbetts]

Re: VHF Antennas

Great links Boatist. This is what I love about this site, help from people who have paid for the mistakes they have made and are able to keep the next guy from doing the same. I am new to the VHF radios, and all of this information will make it easier on me. There is alot of experience here on this forum and am very greatfull for everyones input. VCD, could you further explain the rules about having to have a licence to install a antenna on your own boat. Thanks to all.

 

[Gone]

Re: VHF Antennas

This link substantiates my post. VHF marine is not a CB band that anyone can diddle with.
http://wireless.fcc.gov/commoperators/wncol.html

Antenna replacement is considered "maintain/adjust".


CD.

 

[xtraham]

Re: VHF Antennas

This link substantiates my post. VHF marine is not a CB band that anyone can diddle with.
http://wireless.fcc.gov/commoperators/wncol.html

Antenna replacement is considered "maintain/adjust".


CD.

it's good that you stay on top of things like that, but you have misinterpreted it,
his radio installation is voluntary recreation, not ship
look up voluntary recreation installation,

that info may save you some $$ crusty,

Tom
N3RIB
http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/license.jsp?licKey=679410

 

[Gone]

Re: VHF Antennas

I may need help with the link. 47 CFR is pretty big.

CD

 

[xtraham]

Re: VHF Antennas

I may need help with the link. 47 CFR is pretty big.

CD

hope this helps....

WHO NEEDS A SHIP STATION LICENSE?

You do not need a license to operate a marine VHF radio, radar, or EPIRBs aboard voluntary ships operating domestically. The terms "voluntary" and "domestic" are defined below. Although a license is no longer required for these ships, you may still obtain a license (and call sign) by following the procedures outlined in Section IV.

WHICH SHIPS ARE VOLUNTARY?

The term "voluntary ships" refers to ships that are not required by law to carry a radio. Generally, this term applies to recreation or pleasure craft. In any event, the term "voluntary ships" does not apply to the following:


Cargo ships over 300 gross tons navigating in the open sea;
Ships certified by the U.S. Coast Guard to carry more than 6 passengers for hire in the open sea or tidewaters of the U.S.;
Power driven ships over 20 meters in length on navigable waterways;
Ships of more than 100 gross tons certified by the U.S. Coast Guard to carry at least one passenger on navigable waterways;
Tow boats of more than 7.8 meters in length on navigable waterways; and,
Uninspected commercial fishing industry vessels required to carry a VHF radio.


http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Wireless/Orders/1996/fcc96421.txt

Tom

 

[KaGee]

Re: VHF Antennas

Make sure to read up on the rules of use ...etc.

Including the part of the FCC rules that forbid a non FCC licensed person from installing/replacing an antenna on a VHF marine radio.
Your other information was very good, though.

CD

CD,

If your interpretation were true, these radios and antennas could not be sold in retail outlets. The FCC treats the VHF marine band somewhat like the CB band. They don't monitor it like the old days. Men in Black will not appear at your doorstep if you install your own antenna or radio.

 

[Gone]

Re: VHF Antennas

I may be splitting hairs here but allowing one to operate a radio without an OPERATOR'S license does not confer upon them the ability to maintain or repair a VHF marine radio. Even more so when you consider that an improper installation, be it an antenna or adjustment could cause unknowing interference on chan 16 that may hinder a distress call. The FCC would never open that door.
In the section I cited it expressly stated needing a license for maintaining while noting in another section that some OPERATIONS(operators) do not require a license. I see ambiguity in your stated section as it only expresses OPERATION not maintenance.

As for purchase in retail outlets, one is free to buy any brand that they like, even online. The antenna can be any that fits their particular application. You will find a warning in the tranceiver carton that it must be installed by a qualified technician. You take it to the 2way shop.

You mess up chan 16 and they WILL come looking for you!

CD

 

[stevieray]

Re: VHF Antennas

You mess up chan 16 and they WILL come looking for you!

Can you say "triangulation"? I knew you could. It's a beautiful day in the neighborhood.

Sorry - couldn't resist. Up too late last night posting. Couldn't sleep - wife snoringzzz

 

[KaGee]

Re: VHF Antennas

CD,

In my professional experience I can assert that 99% of the local 2-way radio shops out there, due to their labor rates and contractual obligations, will not work on boats or marine radios.

Every full service marina on the Great Lakes is in violation if what you say is true because they all install radios and antennas and do not employ licensed technicians.

Not trying to argue here, just point out that the laws concerning marine band are antiquated and not enforced by the FCC outside of commercial. They have not been for a long while.

 

[Gone]

Re: VHF Antennas

Like anything, "You pays your money and takes your chances"!

People come to this site for correct information. It would be wrong to encourage someone and not tell them that they may be breaking a law. That's where I'm coming from.

CD

 

[kbetts]

Re: VHF Antennas

Notes taken from both sides of the debate, I asure everyone that this radio will be used for emergency situations and maybe a call to the Lockmaster a time or two on the river. I understand that channel 16 is used for distress emergencys only, that is the reason I want one on my boat. You just never know when you could come up on another boat with an emergency situation at hand and being able to help them would be my duty as a responsible boater. I understand your argument VCD, CB's have their place and so do VHF radios. I also believe in learing the rules and being able to operate a VHF radio correctly is a part of owning one. A lot has been learned here from both sides. Thanks to all for their input. 8)