Video - Is this '57 Johnson running okay?

[adt2]

Re: Video - Is this '57 Johnson running okay?

Okay...couple of updates. I borrowed a compression tester from the local auto supply and tested the cylinders tonight. Both read ~120psi, so I think I can cross that gremlin off my list.

I also followed the throttle linkage around and located the neutral stop. I took a few pictures; here it is in neutral...


...and here it is at WOT in Forward gear...


Not much of a change to my untrained eyes, but maybe it's within the normal range. I tried to make it go farther by twisting the grip, but the pinion just started to slip at the elbow. One of you guys will have to tell me if it looks like it's in the normal range.

I got all my parts to re-build the steering arm assembly in the mail today, but I haven't received the twist grip yet so that project will have to wait.

 

[steelespike]

Re: Video - Is this '57 Johnson running okay?

Its been too many years I can't remember what it looks like.
It sure sounded like the throttle assembly or one of its components isn't right.
perhaps the teeth where the tiller is hinged are not aligned right and its running out of teeth before the throttle advances enough.
Also as the stator advances it should pick up the carb throttle plate roller at the lines on the cam on the stator.
Thats a beauty the boat loosely resembles the old Barbour boats from the 50s. That flat bottom will scoot but will ride pretty hard.
As a teenager I borrowed one with a then new 55, 25 Johnson It seemed to me it was about to fly.
Of course at that time our family boat had a 12hp Elto by Gale.top speed on a good day was probably 18 or 20.

 

[adt2]

Re: Video - Is this '57 Johnson running okay?

Update #1 for today: Got out there early this morning and really followed the inner mechanicals of the throttle linkage. I took some stuff apart and gave it a good cleaning, including the gear teeth on the motor-end of the steering arm assembly, but eventually I realized that there's nothing wrong with the linkage; the whole works is actually getting hung up on some careless wiring done by a previous owner. At what was previously WOT, the whole deal got caught up on the wiring and simply would not advance any farther.

I undid the wiring and re-routed it, reconnected everything, and shazam! The throttle now twists about twice as far over as it did before. I suspect I've got some more work to do on aligning the three sets of teeth on the steering arm assembly, but for now all seems to be working better than it was, so we're headed to the lake. Wish me luck, and I'll report back later.

 

[adt2]

Re: Video - Is this '57 Johnson running okay?

Update #2 for today: FAIL FAIL FAIL. Ever seen an outboard motor burst into flames?

I kid. Sort of. Motor started up fine, and we motored away from the marina. Did a little fiddling with the high-speed needle valve, and once or twice it almost sounded like it was going to come to life and plane us out. (For what it's worth - the hull weighs about 450 lbs, plus 150 lbs for the motor. Me, wife, two kids, and their crud totals about 675 lbs. Total weight, including motor, then, is ~1275 lbs, say 1,300 lbs to be safe. Is the motor sized right?) Never did plane out, though. I got out my GPS at one point while things were still going well (relatively speaking - more on that in a minute), and at WOT we were smoking along....at 9 mph.

Out in the middle of the lake, "cruising" at WOT, the motor suddenly sputtered and died. And things just went downhill from there. I checked all the stuff I knew to check - fuel, fuel line, bulb, etc. Motor would crank but would not fire. We let the kids swim for awhile and let the motor just sit - I thought maybe it was flooded. Then I tried again, a bunch of times, adjusting the idle-speed every so often. No luck. Then tried using the carb / starter fluid spray. Motor would fire for a second or two and then die. Got a little carried away with the spray and caught the front of the power unit on fire - that was an adventure.

Then, to top it all off, the twist-grip came loose. The single screw that attaches the grip to the tiller had sheared, so I now had no way to work the throttle (short of reaching back and working it manually, but by that time I was hot and pissed off. We flagged down a passing boat and they were kind enough to tow us about 30 minutes back to the dock, where we loaded up and headed home.

My next two tasks are to examine / clean the fuel filter, and to re-build the carb. If those two things don't do it, I am leaning toward just taking the thing to the repair shop and writing a check. I'm running out of summer while I learn how to be a mechanic.

And my next boat will have a brand-new four-stroke, in case anybody's wondering.

 

[HighTrim]

Re: Video - Is this '57 Johnson running okay?

Ok, to start, NEVER use starting fluid on a 2 stroke. There is no lubrication and you are asking for trouble. Use premixed fuel in a spray bottle if you must.

Secondly, please dont give up on the old 2 strokes. In the motors defense, it may be neglected, and you can not blame it for not performing properly when not maintained in who knows how many years. I have many, many OMCs from the 50s that will run flawlessly and perform perfectly. They did not come like that when I found them sitting in a barn for 50 years. Took a little elbow grease. I have never got a motor and dropped it in the test tank before a thorough investigation.

So, something that may be an issue, that seems to have been overlooked, is the possiblility that you have a spun prop hub, not allowing max performance.

Lets start with the powerhead though. There are a few steps that need to be taken before I would take a motor out.

Step #1: Test compression. That motor will be in the 100-140 psi range, and should be equal between cylinders.

Step #2: Test spark. Ensure that you are getting the spark to jump 1/4" gap on an inline tester with a bright blue ZAP!! That being said, I pull the flywheel and go over the entire ignition regardless of the spark test. An original coil will show spark, but fail on the water. It is guaranteed. Open her up, inspect if the coils have been replaced, clean/dress the points and regap. Ensure the plug wire is not corroded. If the wire overall is good, cut back the ends so that the springs have a fresh connection. Change the plugs. Retorque flywheel to spec.

Step #3: Clean/rebuild the carb. Who knows what is going on in there, or what a previous owner did. Open it up and go over it, you would not believe the craziness I have seen people do. If the fuel lines are original, replace them. The ethanol will eat them up, gumming your newly cleaned/rebuild carb. Ensure all connections are tight.

Step #4: This is critical. Change the impeller and inspect water pump. This should be done on any new outboard to you, and every few years after that. I can guarantee that if it fails, you will not have time to shut it down before you cause catastrophic damage.

Step#6: I pressure test the gearcase. You could simply refill with fresh oil, and inspect the oil after a run. Water intrusion is bad. If it is ingesting water, time to reseal.

Step #7: Go over the motor in general, greasing and oiling as needed. This category will differ depending on the particular motor, as they are all a little different.

Let us know what you find.

 

[adt2]

Re: Video - Is this '57 Johnson running okay?

Compression is ~120psi on both cylinders, so I think I'm good there. Spark plugs are new and spark is good on both. Replaced the water pump impeller last week. I have not pulled the flywheel; I have two concerns about that: 1) I think it takes a special tool, which I don't have, and b) I don't want to have to deal with the pull-start recoil mechanism, which I seem to remember reading is a ***** to put back together. If I'm wrong on either or both of those, somebody let me know and I'll start unbolting stuff.

Going to work on the carb and fuel pump/filter today. I haven't checked the gearcase oil, but I will. And I didn't mean to imply I was giving on up this motor; since the compression is good, I think whatever is wrong with it can be fixed. I meant I may give up on fixing it myself, and take it to the mechanic to get her running good. I can probably "maintain" better than I can "revive."

 

[nwcove]

Re: Video - Is this '57 Johnson running okay?

Im not totally framiliar with the 35, but the recoil should come off with three screws, no fuss whatsoever. The tool that you mention is a $15 harmonic balancer puller , available at any auto parts store. You will need to get three grade 8 bolts tho as the one that come with the puller will most likely break.

 

[HighTrim]

Re: Video - Is this '57 Johnson running okay?

As stated above, you just need to remove the recoil assembly, you by no means need to take the recoil apart. Just 3 screws and put the whole thing to the side. Then at least you can access the flywheel inspection port and determine the condition of the ignition. It will be another 3 screws to remove the cover, then rotate the flywheel clockwise to inspect the ignition system.

Along with the harmonic balancer puller, you will need a torque wrench to properly torque the flywheel nut back on when you are done. If you do not want to purchase these tools, you could probably rent them.

 

[adt2]

Re: Video - Is this '57 Johnson running okay?

I can probably stomach $15. Where would I get grade 8 bolts? Is that a Home Depot item?

 

[HighTrim]

Re: Video - Is this '57 Johnson running okay?

Im not sure if they carry them or not, maybe.

The bolts need to be 1/4-20, about 3 or 4 inches long. Get a handful of washers too, they usually get crushed/warped every time you use the puller. Make a mark on the threads 7/16" up from the bottom with a sharpie, and thread the bolts into the flywheel to the mark. Too much and you will catch the coils, too little and you will strip the threads. Use a screwdriver wedged into the flywheel gear teeth, against the block, to keep the flywheel from rotating while you crank on the puller. I add an extension to the wrench on the puller to give me more torque. When it pops, it will sound like you broke something but that is normal. Probably scare the stuffing out of you the first time!

 

[HighTrim]

Re: Video - Is this '57 Johnson running okay?

Here is a sticky from the FAQS that will help

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=294072

 

[kfa4303]

Re: Video - Is this '57 Johnson running okay?

HI adt2. Yeah, you can get GRADE 8 bolts and washers at Lowes/HD. You'll need three 1/4" x 20 x 3" Grade 8 bolts and washers to use on the flywheel puller. Make sure you don't thread them too far into the flywheel. You can usually get a puller at any auto store for about $10-$15. Once you've got it all together, make sure the puller stays level under tension and be patient. It may take quite some time for the flywheel to come off. Days, if it's particularly stubborn. However, it should simply "pop" free as you tighten down on the puller. Don't be surprised if there is a loud "BANG" as it comes free. That's normal. Just be sure to leave the flywheel nut in place loosely to prevent the fylwheel from, well flying away when it comes free. Here's a pic of how to use the puller correctly. Since you're going to all this trouble, I would just go a head an order a new tune up kit (points and condensers) from right here at iboats for about $10, rather than fiddling with all the old stuff. Here's a great ignition rebuild link.



http://www.duckworksmagazine.com/04/s/columns/max/24/index.cfm (how to use a puller about 1/3 way down the first page)

http://www.outboard-boat-motor-repa...on 3 HP 1952-1967 Ignition System Tune-up.htm

 

[adt2]

Re: Video - Is this '57 Johnson running okay?

Okay, I'm getting ready to go get the puller and the bolts. What, exactly, am I looking for under the flywheel?

 

[HighTrim]

Re: Video - Is this '57 Johnson running okay?

If the coils are all cracked and discoloured, they are original and will need to be replaced. The condensors are usually ok, but unless you have the proper test equipment to test them, such as a Mercotronic, I would probably replace them. If they have been replaced they will have a black rubber top, whereas the originals will be made of a reddish paper. I usually dress the original points, by placing them in a vice, wrapping 00 paper around a hacksaw blade and polishing them. Clean with acetone, reinstall and gap. Some of the new points you buy are junk compared to the originals, but if you feel more comfortable just buying new and installing that is ok too. Really wont know until you open her up and see what you have. Take a pic and we can go from there.

 

[adt2]

Re: Video - Is this '57 Johnson running okay?

Okay, got the flywheel pulled thanks to a loaned tool from the auto supply place. Turned out not to be a big deal at all, although I should say "thanks" to those who warned me about the loud noise. I would've wet myself thinking I'd ruined something had I not known to expect it.

Now...what am I looking for here?



To my untrained eye, everything looks decent. I do not, however, have any idea what I am talking about.

 

[nwcove]

Re: Video - Is this '57 Johnson running okay?

those coils resemble the old original ones, but do look a bit darker in color. whats the blue goop on them tho?

 

[adt2]

Re: Video - Is this '57 Johnson running okay?

That's the same blue gasket gunk I found under the water pump housing. Peels right off.

 

[nwcove]

Re: Video - Is this '57 Johnson running okay?

have a close look under it.....for cracks in those coils being hidden by a bad attempt at a fix?

 

[adt2]

Re: Video - Is this '57 Johnson running okay?

Frankly the coils look like they're in better shape than anything else on the motor. Either this thing has very low hours, the coils are relatively new, or I don't know what I'm looking at. My money is on #2 and/or #3.

 

[nwcove]

Re: Video - Is this '57 Johnson running okay?

well, jmo, but i can see no other reason for anyone to put silcone sealant on a coil, other than thinking it would fix a crack. it is a bit dirty looking under the flywheel , but that is par for the course with an old motor!