visual check of transom shift cable?

[carburated]

1986 18' Searay Seville, 4.3 OMC Cobra.

This is a family boat, my in-laws are original owners and we use it on occasion (along with various other family members throughout the year). Last weekend I ran aground a bit (about 10 seconds after my wife said, I think it's too shallow, and I said, no problem, we're fine... :lol: ) I took a chunk out of one blade on the prop (no averse affects noticed, it ran fine the rest of the day), so I am going to be replacing the prop.

While I'm working on it, I'd like to adjust the control cables too, as it shifts poorly. It will not reliably come out of gear when returning to neutral from forward. You have to overshift a bit to reverse and back to neutral to get it out of gear. I hear the ESA doing it's thing when I do this, so I'm thinking (hoping) it's a simple cable adjustment issue. Goes into gear cleanly, and reverse works fine in and out. I don't remember this happening in the past, but my brother in law says it's always been this way. Maybe I only noticed it this trip because we were teaching a few newbies to ski (lots of in and out of gear).

It is my understanding from my morning readings that at some point in time, this year boat should have had the transom shift cable replaced, and it should be red. My father in law has no recollection of this being done, but that doesn't mean much to be honest... Is this something I can verify from the motor side? While I'm not totally averse to pulling the outdrive off, I'd rather not if I don't have to. If it's a "new" (red) cable I think I'd go straight to "5 Steps of the Engine Shift Bracket Adjustment" as described on the often mentioned hastings.org website and see if it solves the problem.

If it is a red cable, do you think it is necessary to pull the outdrive to check fitment and re-adjust (which would require buying the jigs, not to mention the obvious pain of removing the outdrive)?

Thanks,
Carb'd.

 

[Scott Danforth]

welcome aboard

Hey Lou C can you comment on the shift cable adjustment.

 

[kpg7121]

1986 18' Searay Seville, 4.3 OMC Cobra.

This is a family boat, my in-laws are original owners and we use it on occasion (along with various other family members throughout the year). Last weekend I ran aground a bit (about 10 seconds after my wife said, I think it's too shallow, and I said, no problem, we're fine... :lol: ) I took a chunk out of one blade on the prop (no averse affects noticed, it ran fine the rest of the day), so I am going to be replacing the prop.

While I'm working on it, I'd like to adjust the control cables too, as it shifts poorly. It will not reliably come out of gear when returning to neutral from forward. You have to overshift a bit to reverse and back to neutral to get it out of gear. I hear the ESA doing it's thing when I do this, so I'm thinking (hoping) it's a simple cable adjustment issue. Goes into gear cleanly, and reverse works fine in and out. I don't remember this happening in the past, but my brother in law says it's always been this way. Maybe I only noticed it this trip because we were teaching a few newbies to ski (lots of in and out of gear).

It is my understanding from my morning readings that at some point in time, this year boat should have had the transom shift cable replaced, and it should be red. My father in law has no recollection of this being done, but that doesn't mean much to be honest... Is this something I can verify from the motor side? While I'm not totally averse to pulling the outdrive off, I'd rather not if I don't have to. If it's a "new" (red) cable I think I'd go straight to "5 Steps of the Engine Shift Bracket Adjustment" as described on the often mentioned hastings.org website and see if it solves the problem.

If it is a red cable, do you think it is necessary to pull the outdrive to check fitment and re-adjust (which would require buying the jigs, not to mention the obvious pain of removing the outdrive)?

Thanks,
Carb'd.

I believe OMC had a recall on those cables back in the day. If your cable is black, someone missed the recall, replace it. But in any case even if it is it red, it may be worn to the point that it should be replaced. You can try the adjustment at the engine end & see what happens but I can tell you that the proper way to adjust it is to pull the drive & do the bellcrank adjustment using the jig found in that kit. Do you hrar a bump from the drive when under way? If so, you're pushing your luck. The cable may be shot or out of adjustment to the point that your gearset is at risk of grenading. Your call.

 

[PITBoat]

It will not reliably come out of gear when returning to neutral from forward. You have to overshift a bit to reverse and back to neutral to get it out of gear. I hear the ESA doing it's thing when I do this, so I'm thinking (hoping) it's a simple cable adjustment issue. Goes into gear cleanly, and reverse works fine in and out.

Very similar to mine, even after installing a new transom shift cable and running through the other adjustments several times.

It is my understanding from my morning readings that at some point in time, this year boat should have had the transom shift cable replaced, and it should be red. My father in law has no recollection of this being done, but that doesn't mean much to be honest...

Is this something I can verify from the motor side?

You can see the cable from inside the boat or from the drive side underneath (starboard).

While I'm not totally averse to pulling the outdrive off, I'd rather not if I don't have to. If it's a "new" (red) cable I think I'd go straight to "5 Steps of the Engine Shift Bracket Adjustment" as described on the often mentioned hastings.org website and see if it solves the problem.

If it is a red cable, do you think it is necessary to pull the outdrive to check fitment and re-adjust (which would require buying the jigs, not to mention the obvious pain of removing the outdrive)?

Lou, et al are the experts and can better advise you on the rest of that. I will say that even though I had the red cable in mine, there was cracking in the outer part and it needed replacing again. Why replacing that and making the adjustments didn't solve the problem you mention above, I don't know. Could be in the drive itself since I could feel that resistance when trying to go to N from FWD w/o the motor running and with someone turning the prop, but the remote felt free with the transom cable unhooked.

Quite possible I didn't do something right too.

 

[Lou C]

The shift cable jacket can crack right where it goes into the pivot housing, you can see it when you tilt the drive up, if you keep the drive down the cable jacket will not crack and the cable won't get water in it which corrodes the inner core. That's what often causes older cables to get stiff. If you can keep the drive down when the boat is not being used it will last a LONG time. The one on our boat was on it when we bought it in 2002 and is still working fine.

OK about the cable adjustment...
there are several things that have to be right, before you start adjusting the cables...
One is you start with the drive off and check the shift rod height. If this is correct to start with it will not change but you shouldn't assume that, mine was a bit off even though a shop had done it the first time. One of the three tools OMC made is a jig to check this but you can do it with a ruler and a straight edge.

Second, the bell crank in the pivot housing must move freely, these sometimes get deposits behind the bell crank due to water leaking past that gasket between the drive and pivot. I pack that area with grease and coat that gasket and mating surfaces on both sides with OMC gasket sealer.

Next, you disconnect the transom shift cable on both ends (Pivot housing and engine bracket). You measure the drag in both directions, no more than 2.5 lbs with a fish scale. If its more than that you need to replace the cable.

Then you install the bell crank holder that holds it at 90* Next use the cable tool to set the length of the cable and install the retainer on the pivot housing end. The cable then gets connected to the engine bell crank up on the engine bracket. After that you need to set the remote cable adjustment on the engine bell crank, the idea behind both adjustments is to get equal stroke in fwd and rev on both sides of neutral. I like to make a mark with a sharpie on the cable were it goes into the jacket for N, then get someone to spin the prop while you shift into FWD and REV. Make a mark for each and the shift stroke should be very close to the same in each gear. You have to follow OMC's instructions to do both adjustments and they are a bit confusing, you have to read them several times before they make sense. Also if your remote cable is stiff or the control is sloppy they should be replaced. A good test after you are done (KEY OUT ENGINE OFF) is to have a helper shift the remote control while you spin the prop you will feel it lock into each gear, if it ratchets then you know you are not getting enough travel in one gear or the other. And if the remote cable adjustment is off it will do this even if you transom shift cable adjustment is perfect.

The ESA is the other component that has to be checked out, it is supposed to lower the idle from about 600 down to about 450 when you shift from in-gear to either FWD or REV with a load on the prop (ie in the water). This is what allows the clutch dogs to release. It will not engage on the water hose on land because there is no load on the prop to put a strain on the cable jacket. That is what moves the load lever and trips the ESA. The ESA should not engage and lower idle when you shift into gear, only when you shift OUT of gear.

those are the basics, you have to follow it in a logical manner on a boat that is new to you and you don't know who worked on it before, take nothing for granted.

 

[carburated]

I believe OMC had a recall on those cables back in the day. If your cable is black, someone missed the recall, replace it. But in any case even if it is it red, it may be worn to the point that it should be replaced. You can try the adjustment at the engine end & see what happens but I can tell you that the proper way to adjust it is to pull the drive & do the bellcrank adjustment using the jig found in that kit. Do you hrar a bump from the drive when under way? If so, you're pushing your luck. The cable may be shot or out of adjustment to the point that your gearset is at risk of grenading. Your call.

No clunking or anything when driving. Goes in gear fine and stays in, it's the getting out of gear that is challenging.

Very similar to mine, even after installing a new transom shift cable and running through the other adjustments several times.

That's the fear. I've read of more than one person who has either seen no improvement or made things worse in an effort to replace this cable. I hate to open up an unnecessary can of worms!

Lou, et al are the experts and can better advise you on the rest of that. I will say that even though I had the red cable in mine, there was cracking in the outer part and it needed replacing again. Why replacing that and making the adjustments didn't solve the problem you mention above, I don't know. Could be in the drive itself since I could feel that resistance when trying to go to N from FWD w/o the motor running and with someone turning the prop, but the remote felt free with the transom cable unhooked.

Quite possible I didn't do something right too.

I am gathering that these are difficult to set up. I sort of feel like it's working well enough now, don't go pulling it apart and making it worse! On the other hand, other than routine oil changes and engine tune ups, I don't think this boat has had much maintenance over the last 10 years. Removing the drive and doing a full go through would be the smart thing to do. New impeller and bellows and all that.

The shift cable jacket can crack right where it goes into the pivot housing, you can see it when you tilt the drive up, if you keep the drive down the cable jacket will not crack and the cable won't get water in it which corrodes the inner core. That's what often causes older cables to get stiff. If you can keep the drive down when the boat is not being used it will last a LONG time. The one on our boat was on it when we bought it in 2002 and is still working fine.

I'm pretty sure it's been stored drive up. At least for the last 10 years. I'll take a good look at the jacket.

OK about the cable adjustment...
there are several things that have to be right, before you start adjusting the cables...
[snip]
...those are the basics, you have to follow it in a logical manner on a boat that is new to you and you don't know who worked on it before, take nothing for granted.

I get it. No shortcuts. I think I've settled on a plan of throw on a new prop for now, and pull it home after our last summer trip for a little winter work. I won't try and do a cable adjustment now, just wait till I can do it right. Will give me a few weeks to get the garage cleaned out and ready to fit a boat anyway...

Thanks for the tips, I'm sure I'll be back with many questions in a few weeks when I am pulling the drive and all that.

 

[Lou C]

A couple of non-invasive things you can do:
Look at your tach when the engine is idling in neutral, trigger the ESA lever, does it drop the rpms down to approx. 450? If not your base idle may be too high. That has to work for it to come out of gear...
Second, to check the shift stroke, you need a helper. Take a sharpie and make a mark on the cable where it goes into the jacket in Neutral. Then with a helper (KEY OUT ENGINE OFF) you spin the prop, have them shift to FWD. Make a mark on the cable for FWD, then do the same for REV. Then measure the distance of the FWD and REV marks from Neutral to see if you are getting = stroke in each gear. If this is the case and the ESA works, that's about all you can do without really getting into it, except for removing the drive and checking the freedom of movement of the shifter bell crank in the pivot housing (see below):

When was the last time the drive was off? You realize if you have an I/O and never remove the drive to inspect the bellows, gimble and u joints you are playing with fire right? A bit of water in the bellows will cost you on any I/O I don't care who makes it. This should be done each season, it says it right in the OMC, Merc and Volvo manuals I have read. You might have nothing more than some crud in the bell crank (Pivot housing) area that is restricting its movement. If you can R+R the drive you can check this and the only cost is a new gasket and some gasket sealer. You can do that without touching the cable adjustment.

Let us know what happens.

 

[carburated]

A couple of non-invasive things you can do:
Look at your tach when the engine is idling in neutral, trigger the ESA lever, does it drop the rpms down to approx. 450? If not your base idle may be too high. That has to work for it to come out of gear...
Second, to check the shift stroke, you need a helper. Take a sharpie and make a mark on the cable where it goes into the jacket in Neutral.

Idle is around 600 I think, though it's that is from reading the not necessarily accurate factory tach. For sure I felt the ESA kick in and drop the idle when it comes out of gear. The issue is just that this only happens when I've overshifted a bit to reverse to get it out of gear.

When was the last time the drive was off?

I don't know. I have no doubt it was well cared for in the first 20 years of it's life when it lived with my father in law (an aerospace engineer). The last 15 years, I really don't know. It's been at a few different places, and as far as I know only received service when something was not working right. Probably typical of a lot of these 80's ski boats.

You realize if you have an I/O and never remove the drive to inspect the bellows, gimble and u joints you are playing with fire right?

I did not know that, but now I do! My van has 150k hard miles on it with nothing but oil changes. But a boat needs a rebuild every year... such is life I guess.

Let us know what happens.

Will do! I'll do the quick measurement check on the shift cable that you mentioned, then will definitely pull the drive this winter and check it all out for real. And I can assure you when the time comes to buy my own boat, it will be an outboard.

 

[carburated]

welp... I put on a new prop and looked at the cable, it's red and looks good. I didn't do any measuring or adjustments, just headed out for the day. Boat ran normal (strong engine, tricky getting out of forward gear) for about 20 minutes, then went to crap. When it wouldn't pull up my 100 pound daughter on doubles I knew something was wrong lol.

I saw the voltage was very low, a quick pop of the hood showed a shredded alternator belt. Managed to make it back to dock, but it felt like it was running on 4-5 cylinders. Very boggy and with a heavy miss.

Is this what will happen with low voltage (no charging)? Seems weird to me, I'd think it would run fine until the battery was too low, then just die. I'm assuming they are related (broken belt and crap running) since they happened at the same time, not sure though. I've not owned a points ignition in a REAL long time though, so I don't really recall.

 

[CaptCrunch205]

Hi Carburated,

Lou C knows what he is talking about when he says you should pull your outdrive and inspect it. It is 6 bolts and it pulls out very easily. 15 minute job. Failure to address these issues right away can become costly. If you blow the gears in the upper or lower unit you are looking at a $1000 -$2000 bill to have them rebuilt. If the boat is in good shape and has a lot of life left in it, a few hours of your time and some inexpensive maintenance is a no brainer. Right now because of my failure to check my gear oil more frequently I am starin.g down having all the seals in my outdrive replaced, because water was getting into my outdrive. I am afraid of what that will cost me. I don’t know many people that have or like to throw money away. Don’t wait until winter. Spend a Saturday or Sunday and go through some general maintenance. If your oil or check engine light comes on in the car, do you get it checked when the oil change is due in 2,000 miles or do you take it in right away. Play it safe, trust me, there,s nothing worse than sitting here on the 4th of July with your boat in the driveway and not in the water.

 

[carburated]

Understood. Yesterday was the last trip of the year, a one day up and back. Boat is kept over an hour away and I'm not the one responsible for maintenance at this time so I'm sorting out the situation. I did some poking around under the engine cover yesterday and I'm not terribly impressed with the 'mechanic' that has been working on the boat.

Plan now is still to haul it down to my house in a few weeks for the winter. I'd like to do a full going through of the boat, all new hoses/belts and pull the outdrive to do bellows and whatever else is needed. I downloaded the OMC repair manual.

This boat is definitely worth saving (unless further inspection reveals big rot). It's on the verge of being left behind but with less than 400 hrs and always being a freshwater day use/stored under shelter boat I'm hoping the stringers/transom are good.