vortec valve size

[86liberator]

Re: vortec valve size

I could do close to 50 with my old setup. If I could hit 60 that would be great. Would it take an additional 100 horse to get me close to 60?

 

[Bondo]

Re: vortec valve size

I could do close to 50 with my old setup.
If I could hit 60 that would be great.

Ayuh,..... That,... Ain't gonna Happen......

With a hull like your's,...
You can figure about $1,000.00 Per MPH to go Faster.....

The up-grades We've been talking about might net you 1 or 2 mph,....
That's It....
For Anymore,... See Above....

 

[86liberator]

Re: vortec valve size

1 To 2 Mph Thats It? I Gained 3 Mph Just Throwing On A Rebuilt Quadrajet.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: vortec valve size

It can be done with enough torque...

I read about a guy over on Offshoreonly.com that had a 211 Lib with a severely tricked out 460/King Cobra that would "Bury the speedo at 80mph" (his words)

Mine would do 60 (GPS) at 5000rpm empty in light chop.

Now it does 57 (Stock454/Bravo III, 26p props 1.81:1 drive) at 4600 rpm.

 

[86liberator]

Re: vortec valve size

It can be done with enough torque...

I read about a guy over on Offshoreonly.com that had a 211 Lib with a severely tricked out 460/King Cobra that would "Bury the speedo at 80mph" (his words)

Mine would do 60 (GPS) at 5000rpm empty in light chop.

Now it does 57 (Stock454/Bravo III, 26p props 1.81:1 drive) at 4600 rpm.

Wow 80 mph thats crazy. You have any pics of your liberator?

So if i go with the 350 vortec are hypereutectic pistons what most people use?

 

[Bondo]

Re: vortec valve size

So if i go with the 350 vortec are hypereutectic pistons what most people use?

Ayuh,....

Way Better than cast,+ Way Cheaper than forged....

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: vortec valve size

Wow 80 mph thats crazy. You have any pics of your liberator?

So if i go with the 350 vortec are hypereutectic pistons what most people use?

Yeah I think 80 would be a little over kill. (read---unsafe!)

PIC? yeah I always have pics!

This is right after I started the new engine for the first time...before I put the swim-step back on.


I think everybody here is getting tired of this picture!! I think I've posted it too many times!

Cheers,


Rick

 

[SuperNova]

Re: vortec valve size

Ayuh,... That's what you've got Now....

The 1.32:1s are NLA....



Ayuh,... I wish I knew how to type that Noise too....

There's just No Way in 'ell a prop for a Bravo II,... Or a Bravo III, will bolt onto an Alpha....
Any Alpha....

Bravo I props do interchange with the Alphas,+ the large gearcase outboards...

It wasn't a prop made for a Bravo II outdrive. It was a Mercury brand prop and "bravoII" was the NAME of the prop design. I may be wrong about the name, maybe it was just "Bravo", but I don't think so...it's etched in the side of the props, I still have one of the props and can double check it. I KNOW a prop made for a Bravo II or Bravo III won't fit an Alpha.
As far as the 1.5 gears go....there were two different versions made....a standard duty set that came behind all the v-8 smallblocks, and a heavy-duty set that came behind some of the big-block v-8s. I know a lot of people believe the alpha can't take a beating, but I think that's just because of sheer ignorance of the correct parts.

Anybody on this board who claims to know Alpha's can tell you what the difference is between the light duty set and the heavy-duty set, and also the other important change that must be made to make the swap.
I'll tell you in a few posts if none of the other "experts" comes up with the answer.

 

[Bondo]

Re: vortec valve size

I KNOW a prop made for a Bravo II or Bravo III won't fit an Alpha.

Ayuh,... I figured that,+ thought it mighta been a Typo,.....

I've seen the HD 1.50s,.. Slightly larger Bearing seat ain't it,..??
The 1.32s were the Perfered method of dealing with elevated Power issues...
Too Bad that only Used, or the rare Old stock are the only 1s left...

Soo,...
Other than Syn-oils,+ a Shower,..
What's Your secret recipe for the Problem...??

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: vortec valve size

All the small block 211 Liberators were pretty slow. about 50 mph......and fairly anemic out of the hole. My Big Brother drove both of them and was not happy with the small block powered 211.

When he drove the 460 powered Lib, although it was (quicker but) still somewhat slow out of the hole, it accelerated right on up to 60 mph or so at WOT.

So he bought it (new)

When he was up here in the NW last year he drove it with the 454 Bravo III and he told me that it just Rockets out of the hole more than twice as fast as it ever did when it was new.

My suggestion for a 211 Liberator? If you want to go fast and have a spectacular hole shot....get a 502/496 & Bravo III or Volvo DP


Regards,



Rick

 

[SuperNova]

Re: vortec valve size

Ayuh,... I figured that,+ thought it mighta been a Typo,.....

I've seen the HD 1.50s,.. Slightly larger Bearing seat ain't it,..??

No, actually if anything, it's the opposite in relation to the bearing. The bearing isn't the common failure. Or are you just playing with me? I've seen you do that before, too.

Haven't gotten to check that prop yet, but I will try to tonight when I get home from work. Although I have another problem now that I'm thinking about it. I think the one I still have is a 21" pitch 4-blade s/s Trophy. (No, it doesn't only fit Trophy boats, either ) So I'm not entirely sure I still have any of the Bravo or Bravo II props. :redface: I'll check though.

 

[SuperNova]

Re: vortec valve size

All the small block 211 Liberators were pretty slow. about 50 mph......and fairly anemic out of the hole. My Big Brother drove both of them and was not happy with the small block powered 211.

When he drove the 460 powered Lib, although it was (quicker but) still somewhat slow out of the hole, it accelerated right on up to 60 mph or so at WOT.

So he bought it (new)

When he was up here in the NW last year he drove it with the 454 Bravo III and he told me that it just Rockets out of the hole more than twice as fast as it ever did when it was new.

My suggestion for a 211 Liberator? If you want to go fast and have a spectacular hole shot....get a 502/496 & Bravo III


Regards,



Rick

The key here is called "Prop-slip". The dual-prop drive has a lot less of it. A twin drive set-up has the same effect.

 

[86liberator]

Re: vortec valve size

The key here is called "Prop-slip". The dual-prop drive has a lot less of it. A twin drive set-up has the same effect.

Could you explain the dual-prop drive a little more for me?

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: vortec valve size

Could you explain the dual-prop drive a little more for me?

This is a "dual prop"


You would have 100% prop slip if you put the drive in gear and run it with the boat tied to the dock. no movement.

Incidentally, prop slip is like driving on a snow covered road you never have complete traction like when driving on dry pavement. With a prop in water, you never get to "drive on dry pavement"

All props slip because of the viscosity of water. the higher the viscosity the lower the slip. (of course we cannot change the viscosity of water)

We can add more props though by using a dual (counter-rotating) prop set up or by running twin (or more) engines/drives.


single prop drives exhibit about 12-15% slip. Dual prop drives will usually exhibit around 8% or so.

Here's my favorite prop slip calculator http://www.go-fast.com/Prop_Slip_Calculator.htm

 

[SuperNova]

Re: vortec valve size

I've seen the HD 1.50s,.. Slightly larger Bearing seat ain't it,..??
The 1.32s were the Perfered method of dealing with elevated Power issues...
Too Bad that only Used, or the rare Old stock are the only 1s left...

Soo,...
Other than Syn-oils,+ a Shower,..
What's Your secret recipe for the Problem...??

O.k. here we go.
1. The 1.32's were used because the driven gear could be made thicker due to the ratio and therefore it was stronger. The problem was that the drive ratio was a bear to turn and basically negated all the advantages of having extra power in the first place. So... they were done away with. Assisting they're demise was the simple fact that somebody decided the Alpha's driven gear bearing didn't actually need to be as thick as it was; when they thinned the bearing down, wa-la the driven gear could be made thicker and therefore, stronger. So, they came out with a "1.5/1 ratio heavy-duty gearset" for the alpha gen 1. which will allow it to live behind higher power engines. The biggest weak point and most common failure in alpha gen 1 has always been the input gearset in my experience, and the heavy-duty 1.5 help minimize this failure.

Other than that I use good Mercury synthetic gear lube. No drive shower and no other major mods.

A small side story to help explain further. I once "borrowed" a drive off of my B.I.L.'s Nova with a 260 hp 350 smallblock. My hopped up 355 ci. sheared enough teeth off the input driven gear to seize the outdrive instantly. Turned out to be the standard duty 1.5:1 gearset. I replaced them with a set of the 1.5:1 H.D.'s, which interestingly enough took the exact same shims, and put the drive back on and no further problems yet.

 

[86liberator]

Re: vortec valve size

O.k. here we go.
1. The 1.32's were used because the driven gear could be made thicker due to the ratio and therefore it was stronger. The problem was that the drive ratio was a bear to turn and basically negated all the advantages of having extra power in the first place. So... they were done away with. Assisting they're demise was the simple fact that somebody decided the Alpha's driven gear bearing didn't actually need to be as thick as it was; when they thinned the bearing down, wa-la the driven gear could be made thicker and therefore, stronger. So, they came out with a "1.5/1 ratio heavy-duty gearset" for the alpha gen 1. which will allow it to live behind higher power engines. The biggest weak point and most common failure in alpha gen 1 has always been the input gearset in my experience, and the heavy-duty 1.5 help minimize this failure.

Other than that I use good Mercury synthetic gear lube. No drive shower and no other major mods.

A small side story to help explain further. I once "borrowed" a drive off of my B.I.L.'s Nova with a 260 hp 350 smallblock. My hopped up 355 ci. sheared enough teeth off the input driven gear to seize the outdrive instantly. Turned out to be the standard duty 1.5:1 gearset. I replaced them with a set of the 1.5:1 H.D.'s, which interestingly enough took the exact same shims, and put the drive back on and no further problems yet.

Great info. Wheres the best place to get the 1.5 heavy duty gearset and also the prop you were talking about? thanks

 

[SuperNova]

Re: vortec valve size

Great info. Wheres the best place to get the 1.5 heavy duty gearset and also the prop you were talking about? thanks

I think iboats sells the gears, although that's not where I got mine from, so I can't be sure. If you can't find them here, then add the usual to "ebasicpower" and they have them for sure.

The props are the same deal: I think you can get them here on iboats; I got mine from my local Mercury dealer. The best I found for my 21' Wellcraft that had the 355 was a 4-blade stainless. They sacrificed a very little top end speed for a helluva better hole shot. Worth it for a high-performance single engine setup. I used 21-26 pitch depending on the load in the boat. You'll have to experiment.