W & Rummy helped

[crunch]

Re: W & Rummy helped

Hers some cherry picked statistics I thought I would throw into the mix.

Wonderful time to be a American solder, not so wonderful time to be citizen of Iraq.

Study Claims Iraq's 'Excess' Death Toll Has Reached 655,000

The survey was done by Iraqi physicians and overseen by epidemiologists at (Johns Hopkins University's Bloomberg School of Public Health). The findings are being published online today by the (British medical journal the Lancet).

Lets do a little math on this stat, shall we. (655000 divided by 1,347 days =486 per day.)Pretty grim isn’t it.


A few more stats for anyone interested.
Poll conducted by the University of Maryland:

71% of all Iraqis now want the U.S. out of Iraq.

61% of all Iraqis SUPPORT insurgent attacks on U.S. troops.

At first We went into Iraq to get the WMDS didn’t we,"Oops "that turned out to be Bum scoop. Then decided that we went in Iraq to bring democracy to Iraq.Well that almost Qualifies for another "OoPs" Doesn’t it ?

Kinda make you wonder who in that country came and "ask us to liberate them from Saddam". It seems to me that is the way it should be, that the librated would at least try to liberate themselves, are at least ask for some help. Sure didn’t see any reports about anyone asking for any of our help.

Can’t think of a country that had a foreign power come in unasked, and overthrew their tyrant and said here have some Democracy? Maybe I just don’t get it, I don’t know.

Can anybody here think of a suicide bomber that tried to blow up any of Saddams palaces? Can’t say as I’ve heard any reports, but of course he was rather secretive.

Seems that there are plenty trying to blowAmericans, Iraqis, or just any body that looks like they may not agree with their idea of religion. Damn fools just cant get the hang of Democracy can they?

Game's on Tree dancer, the game is on

Seems no one asked us to keep Russia out of Europe for 50 years, but I'm glad we did.... :}

 

[jtexas]

Re: W & Rummy helped

Ohhh come on, you have made a critical observation, perhap's founded, and perhaps not.

Elborate plz on my original question if you will or can. I for one think you cannot.

unable to identify your "original question...please be more specific...thanks

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: W & Rummy helped

Really

Quote: 12:51pm Today by QC
...
I am gonna qualify all of this because I expect you will simply ignore the information in the link I posted. ...


hold on, QC, the link you posted was an op-ed piece - by definition an opinion - hardly a credible enough source to hang your hat on. An especially irresponsible use of a statistical "fact" (and I use that word loosely).

Arbitrarily picking a 13-year time period that yields an answer supporting your position completely strips it of any statistical significance whatsoever.

Then compare U.S. military mortality worldwide from any cause to a specific conflict in a specific region?

Frankly I'm surprised that a person of your intelligence and education would even attempt to convince anyone that there's a conclusion to be drawn from the "data" presented.

Seems as though you were really counting on people to "ignore the information" (and you used that word lightly) in your link.


There ya go.

 

[QC]

Re: W & Rummy helped

jtex,

I believe I have been clear, but I will elaborate . . .

Your statemate, Mr. txswinner, has incessantly claimed that we should not be in Iraq. I personally believe it is a noble and worthy cause. He, however, has claimed that we should not be involved in this cause due to Iraqi casualties, he has claimed we should not be there due to US personnel casualties, he has claimed we should not be there due to GWB's intelligence (his IQ), he has claimed we should not be there due to faulty intelligence, he has claimed we should not be there due to GWB's lies, he has claimed we should not be there due to the Reich wing's views, he has claimed we should not be there for an incoherent variety of other reasons. It seems to me that this thread is about the first two, especially the first. I believe that the statistics that Tail_Gunner posted point to a hole in txs's reasoning on #1 and I believe that the statistics I posted point to a hole in #2.

Soooooo, what I am asking you to do, is to clearly state your problem. If it is that all statistics lie and statisticians lie with them, then, OK fine. You should also ignore all statistics you encounter on a daily basis and be done with it, this would include your pay rate, your children's grades, heart rates as compared to other's, deaths of smokers, deaths by region, death by income level, death by murder, death by car accident, insurance rates, income tax rates, interest rates, inflation rates, illegal immigration rates, legal immigration rates etc. etc. etc.. If, however, you believe that some statistics are a problem, and some are valid in the course of a discussion, then fine, I agree.

Edit: BTW I am a high-school drop out. Thanks for the compliment, I think . . .

 

[JB]

Re: W & Rummy helped

Elaborate? Sure, TG.

You said 3,000 Americans died on 9/11.

My nit-pick said that the victims of 9/11 included 54 different nationalities.

It was really a pretty much irrelevant fact, but I quoted it to show that "yabuts" (cherry picked facts) that are irrelevant can appear to contradict a valid point.

 

[jtexas]

Re: W & Rummy helped

Really

Quote: 12:51pm Today by QC
...
I am gonna qualify all of this because I expect you will simply ignore the information in the link I posted. ...


hold on, QC, the link you posted was an op-ed piece - by definition an opinion - hardly a credible enough source to hang your hat on. An especially irresponsible use of a statistical "fact" (and I use that word loosely).

Arbitrarily picking a 13-year time period that yields an answer supporting your position completely strips it of any statistical significance whatsoever.

Then compare U.S. military mortality worldwide from any cause to a specific conflict in a specific region?

Frankly I'm surprised that a person of your intelligence and education would even attempt to convince anyone that there's a conclusion to be drawn from the "data" presented.

Seems as though you were really counting on people to "ignore the information" (and you used that word lightly) in your link.


There ya go.

tailgunner: if there's a question in there for me, I don't see it...how 'bout just coming right out and stating it in plain English.

[note to QC: I challenged your use of "deaths per year" as published in the Washington Post - meaning that the stats cited are meaningless in the context in which they are used. Comparing peacetime mortality to an armed conflict seemed irrelevant to me. Your explanation ("being in the military is dangerous") - I get it - sorry you had to spell it out for me. I also didn't get that the point was to compare a pre-GWB time period to the present. I would point out that "deaths per year" is only valid for comparing similar-sized groups - a better measure would be something like deaths per thousand - not sure how that affects this case, but I don't care to spend more time on it. In any case, my subsequent posts weren't intended as further challenges on this particular point. And yeah I sincerely misoverestimated your level of formal education - but I guess I've learned by now that eventually you reach a point where the amount of respect you get is more related to how you express yourself (I'm talkin ideas and concepts not grammar and spelling, and least not in a boaters' internet forum), and school be damned.]

As far as txswinner's viewpoints, I've never been convinced we did the right thing invading Iraq either, but I'm not sure I want to enter that debate right now. I'm pretty sure, though, that it's a whole nuther question besides what do we do about it now.

 

[QC]

Re: W & Rummy helped

jtex,

Thanks for the response. Just havin' fun with my rebuttal as your challenge was a good one, and I agree the stats as stated were open for critique.

Actually I was a little dishonest concerning the ejamacation; I have a Master's from HKU (Hard Knocks University) I actually take pride in grammar etc. as I grew up with a mom with a PhD in Communications . . .

 

[treedancer]

Re: W & Rummy helped

Quote Tail Gunner

Game's on Tree dancer, the game is on

Ohhh this suck's but i do believe he's a american so i will ask this, Those statement's do include the Kurdish populaton.and i am not even going into the religous sect, i am going to defend america, that is my dog in the fight.......... so you know my Agenda.


On point one (I do believe he is an American,) yes I am an American)

On point two (those statements do include the Kurdish population)

No they don’t, here have a look yourself.
Here is a sample of what you will find. (We estimate that almost 655 000 people—2·5% of the population in the study area—have died in Iraq. Although such death rates might be common in times of war, the combination of a long duration and tens of millions of people affected has made this the deadliest international conflict of the 21st century, and should be of grave concern to everyone)

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140673606694919/fulltext

If you don’t like that link here is another one, says the same thing.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/10/AR2006101001442_pf.html

On point three (I am going to defend America that is my dog in the fight.)

Been there done that I’m a Marine Corp. Vet. So guess we are on the same page on that one.Sorry if you think “facts” that you don’t agree with suck.

 

[Plainsman]

Re: W & Rummy helped

Quote Tail Gunner

Game's on Tree dancer, the game is on

Ohhh this suck's but i do believe he's a american so i will ask this, Those statement's do include the Kurdish populaton.and i am not even going into the religous sect, i am going to defend america, that is my dog in the fight.......... so you know my Agenda.


On point one (I do believe he is an American,) yes I am an American)

On point two (those statements do include the Kurdish population)

No they don’t, here have a look yourself.
Here is a sample of what you will find. (We estimate that almost 655 000 people—2·5% of the population in the study area—have died in Iraq. Although such death rates might be common in times of war, the combination of a long duration and tens of millions of people affected has made this the deadliest international conflict of the 21st century, and should be of grave concern to everyone)

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140673606694919/fulltext

If you don’t like that link here is another one, says the same thing.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/10/AR2006101001442_pf.html

On point three (I am going to defend America that is my dog in the fight.)

Been there done that I’m a Marine Corp. Vet. So guess we are on the same page on that one.Sorry if you think “facts” that you don’t agree with suck.

WOW of the 21st century, guys a genius! I bet his on al gores global warming team.

 

[crunch]

Re: W & Rummy helped

Quote Tail Gunner

Game's on Tree dancer, the game is on

Ohhh this suck's but i do believe he's a american so i will ask this, Those statement's do include the Kurdish populaton.and i am not even going into the religous sect, i am going to defend america, that is my dog in the fight.......... so you know my Agenda.


On point one (I do believe he is an American,) yes I am an American)

On point two (those statements do include the Kurdish population)

No they don’t, here have a look yourself.
Here is a sample of what you will find. (We estimate that almost 655 000 people—2·5% of the population in the study area—have died in Iraq. Although such death rates might be common in times of war, the combination of a long duration and tens of millions of people affected has made , and should be of grave concern to everyone)

http://www.thelancet.com/journals/lancet/article/PIIS0140673606694919/fulltext

If you don’t like that link here is another one, says the same thing.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/10/10/AR2006101001442_pf.html

On point three (I am going to defend America that is my dog in the fight.)

Been there done that I’m a Marine Corp. Vet. So guess we are on the same page on that one.Sorry if you think “facts” that you don’t agree with suck.

WOW of the 21st century, guys a genius! I bet his on al gores global warming team.

Of course he is, right beside Tree...

this the deadliest international conflict of the 21st century

Duhhhh... it's the only international conflict of the 21st century.... 1 out of 1, there's a broad statistical sample. :}

 

[jtexas]

Re: W & Rummy helped

hey, give the guy credit for taking advantage of what may be his only opportunity to be right!

 

[crunch]

Re: W & Rummy helped

Do I havta?... K. 8)

 

[treedancer]

Re: W & Rummy helped


Quote EricKims
WOW of the 21st century, guys a genius! I bet his on al gores global warming team.

Don’t know much about his intellect, are his stance on destroying the environment; at least he knows that there are more a more wars in the world than Iraq.

Afghanistan War (also known as: "Operation Enduring Freedom,") (2001-Present) --United States, Afghan government vs. Taliban and al-Qaida.

Baluchistan War (2003-Present) --Pakistan Government vs. Baluch rebels.
This is the latest in a series of rebellions by the Baluch ethnic group in the region of Pakistan known as Baluchistan. The Pakistanin governement is fighting this war concurrently with the War in Waziristan

Burundi Civil War (1994-Present) --Burundi Government vs. Hutu rebels

Chechen Warr (also known as: the Second Chechen War) (1999-Present) --Russian Government vs. Chechen

Colombian Civil War (1964-Present) --Colombian Government (with increasing aid from the United States vs. Marxist rebels and various narcotics cartels.
India-Bangladesh Border Conflict (April 18-April 20, 2001) India vs. Bangladesh.

Central African Republic Army Mutiny (May 28, 2001-Present)--Central African Republic government, Libya and rebels from Congo (Front for the Liberation of Congo) vs. C.A.R. Army rebel

Chad Rebellion (2005-Present) --Chadian rebels and Sudanese-backed mercenaries attacked the Chadian capital in an attempt to overthrow President Derby.

 

[Plainsman]

Re: W & Rummy helped

Quote EricKims
WOW of the 21st century, guys a genius! I bet his on al gores global warming team.

Don’t know much about his intellect, are his stance on destroying the environment; at least he knows that there are more a more wars in the world than Iraq.

Afghanistan War (also known as: "Operation Enduring Freedom,") (2001-Present) --United States, Afghan government vs. Taliban and al-Qaida.

Baluchistan War (2003-Present) --Pakistan Government vs. Baluch rebels.
This is the latest in a series of rebellions by the Baluch ethnic group in the region of Pakistan known as Baluchistan. The Pakistanin governement is fighting this war concurrently with the War in Waziristan

Burundi Civil War (1994-Present) --Burundi Government vs. Hutu rebels

Chechen Warr (also known as: the Second Chechen War) (1999-Present) --Russian Government vs. Chechen

Colombian Civil War (1964-Present) --Colombian Government (with increasing aid from the United States vs. Marxist rebels and various narcotics cartels.
India-Bangladesh Border Conflict (April 18-April 20, 2001) India vs. Bangladesh.

Central African Republic Army Mutiny (May 28, 2001-Present)--Central African Republic government, Libya and rebels from Congo (Front for the Liberation of Congo) vs. C.A.R. Army rebel

Chad Rebellion (2005-Present) --Chadian rebels and Sudanese-backed mercenaries attacked the Chadian capital in an attempt to overthrow President Derby.

Don't forget the Korean War either

 

[POINTER94]

Re: W & Rummy helped

Thanks Treedancer. I didn't want to have to look that up myself.

 

[crunch]

Re: W & Rummy helped

Like, whatever?

Thanx for replying to Tree, I don't often get to see his BS as I did a "stupid", I was just playing in my "user area" and thought it would be neat to see what an Ignored user looked like, so out of the blue I just picked Tree.........

LOL... now I can't un-ignore him, and miss out on all the fun of his posts.

I truly do miss his "tree hugger" stance on issues... gut busting laughs are hard to come by..

 

[jtexas]

Re: W & Rummy helped

Afghanistan War (also known as: "Operation Enduring Freedom,") (2001-Present) --United States, Afghan government vs. Taliban and al-Qaida.



Baluchistan War (2003-Present) --Pakistan Government vs. Baluch rebels.
This is the latest in a series of rebellions by the Baluch ethnic group in the region of Pakistan known as Baluchistan. The Pakistanin governement is fighting this war concurrently with the War in Waziristan

Burundi Civil War (1994-Present) --Burundi Government vs. Hutu rebels

Chechen Warr (also known as: the Second Chechen War) (1999-Present) --Russian Government vs. Chechen

Colombian Civil War (1964-Present) --Colombian Government (with increasing aid from the United States vs. Marxist rebels and various narcotics cartels.
India-Bangladesh Border Conflict (April 18-April 20, 2001) India vs. Bangladesh.

Central African Republic Army Mutiny (May 28, 2001-Present)--Central African Republic government, Libya and rebels from Congo (Front for the Liberation of Congo) vs. C.A.R. Army rebel

Chad Rebellion (2005-Present) --Chadian rebels and Sudanese-backed mercenaries attacked the Chadian capital in an attempt to overthrow President Derby.

please note that, of the conflicts listed above, only two are international conflicts, one of which (India vs Bangladesh) lasted all of three days, and can (in my opinion) be considered immaterial for purposes of this discussion.

 

[Tail_Gunner]

Re: W & Rummy helped

Elaborate? Sure, TG.

You said 3,000 Americans died on 9/11.

My nit-pick said that the victims of 9/11 included 54 different nationalities.

It was really a pretty much irrelevant fact, but I quoted it to show that "yabuts" (cherry picked facts) that are irrelevant can appear to contradict a valid point.

After quite a bit of thought the above post pretty much say's it all.
I could sit here and post endless irrefutable stat's on how well this "police action" is being conducted.

As to there margin of error, one could generalize and say it's with in a 10% rate of accuracy, which is still meaningless if it fall's on deaf ears.

This is America, and in it's truest state, all opinion's should be respected and given credence. One could really pick out some glaring issue's , such as the statement of 54 different nationalities, and perhap's state Uh YAh this is a melting pot. But what would only serve to futher alienate and create greater gap's

They were human's, existing on or in the world's greatest experiment the USA and here they are...

Recently i have watched a post asking the question, will they attack again. And with dismay, the overwhelming majority have stated yes.

I can only think back to my father and my grandfather and there generation, ( i am over 50 :'( ) and i can only say this, never again in our life time would any country or terrorist orginization) again attack this country if men like them were alive and conducting this police action. (To this day both Japan and Germany walk very lightly like it or not )

They both were marine's, not to well educated, actually 8th grade education's, but if you needed them they were there no matter what the cost. And carried respect in there community from all ...........liberal, demo,blk white, indian ......none of that matterd.

 

[waterinthefuel]

Re: W & Rummy helped

Those wars are all civil conflicts, not international. That's funny. International means involving OTHER NATIONS! LOLOLOL

Anyway,

JB, it's not that they make grammatical errors, I mean to err is human, right? But think about it, how educated can an opinion be if said educated person can't even put his opinion on paper without making it look like a 2 year old got on the keyboard and started whacking keys?

If someone is going to brag about their education, then they will be held to a higher standard than someone who doesn't.

Look at Bush. He's the president and he has yet to say the word "nuclear" correctly. He says "nucular". He stumbles in his speeches. It doesn't mean he's dumb, but the left portrays him that way because he can't articulate well.

Look at Clinton, he lied and lied again, but he sounded smooth as oil doing it. So people believed him.

 

[jtexas]

Re: W & Rummy helped

Clinton lied with a purpose...everbody knows a southern gentlemen won't "kiss and tell"...how many of y'all actually think he should have sallied the young lady's reputation in a national press conference?

If you do, then please don't embarrass yourself by answering!

[note to T/G..."54 nationalities" in this case means "citizens of 54 different nations", not "American citizens of foreign extraction".]