wake boarding tips

bavardage

Cadet
Joined
Feb 4, 2010
Messages
11
I am hopeing someone can maybe give me some hints or suggestions. We have a 22 foot regal. When pulling a wakeboarder who weighs in the 200-220 range who likes to wakeboard at about 20 mph, we seem to have a very difficult time holding a constant speed. 20 mph seems to be about the speed that the boat wants to come down on plane, so we seem to always have to be throttling up or down to keep the speed there. The same thing happens when he makes hard cuts. We drop speed, then have to throttle up again. Anyone have any suggestions that we might try to keep a more constant speed.

Thanks
 

perchin

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jun 3, 2010
Messages
275
Re: wake boarding tips

You'll have more responses if you post this in the wakeboarding thread... just above the thread you posted this in:confused:

What prop are you running???

What engine???

Trim tabs???

Hydrofoil???
 

haulnazz15

Captain
Joined
Mar 9, 2009
Messages
3,720
Re: wake boarding tips

Smart tabs would probably help out with the speed problem in regards to falling off plane. However, water sports require more attention from the driver than just setting the throttle and leaving it. As a skier/wakeboarder pulls and cuts, it will slow the boat down and a good driver will compensate by giving small adjustments in throttle to counteract the decrease in speed.

There are systems like Perfect Pass that will do this for you, but they aren't cheap and require some wiring/mechanical skills to install.

Another small point is why does the wakeboarder prefer 20mph as opposed to 22mph? A few mph faster might give you enough leeway to keep it on plane and still keep a decent wake.
 

bavardage

Cadet
Joined
Feb 4, 2010
Messages
11
Re: wake boarding tips

Thanks for responding. I apologize for posting in the wrong forum. We are running a a 350 mag with a 19 pitch 4 blade prop.

Is there a way to move a post to a different forum?
 

Yellow Yota

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jul 23, 2009
Messages
122
Re: wake boarding tips

Smart tabs are the first step in the right direction.
 

skibrain

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jun 17, 2004
Messages
766
Re: wake boarding tips

Is your trim down all the way?
 

kyle f

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Sep 5, 2007
Messages
408
Re: wake boarding tips

Stay away fromt he smart tabs... they will destroy the peak of the wake. However, they do exactly what they say they do, just no good for wakeboarding.

20mph is pretty dang slow, even for a beginner... try to speed up just a hair.

Changin the prop isn't going to change much about this situation if it is truly the speed where you brake plane.

THis is why Inboards are better for such things, sorry but its the truth. If you are right on you planning speed, you are just going to have to speed up. Then changing the prop may help you maintain your constant speed... but you will still have to move the throttls a bit when someone cuts hard.
 

stimps

Cadet
Joined
Mar 30, 2010
Messages
24
Re: wake boarding tips

On mine I found that adding a five blade prop and moving as much weight as possible forward made a huge difference. It went from the situation you describe to needing now only minimal throttle input on tight turns. They still require driving but it's nothing like before with the 3 blade prop (realise yours is a 4). Speed wise mine is between 20 and 25mph, on my friends malibu vlx we use 37kmh which is 23 on the perfect pass type system. Even that on tight turns sometimes needs you to open the throttle manually to keep the speed.
Try picking the speed up a bit and definetly and agree with kyle f on the trim tabs too, they don;t help the wake at all.:)
 

kriphead

Cadet
Joined
Jun 9, 2009
Messages
29
Re: wake boarding tips

I assume using hydrofoil would not be recommended then either?
 

dbismyname

Seaman Apprentice
Joined
Feb 9, 2009
Messages
44
Re: wake boarding tips

Hydrofoil won't hurt your wake at all and will help the planing speed.
 

kyle f

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Sep 5, 2007
Messages
408
Re: wake boarding tips

But Hydrofoils put stes on the outdrive and since its a ceter point lift, it creates stabilization issues at high speeds.

A lot of this plays into how you use your boat the most. If you spend 80% of your time on the water wakeboarding, a hydrofoil wouldnt hurt your boat all that much or its driving charachteristics, but lifting the back end of your boat out of the water well greatly reduce the peak of your wake. So will moving all of the wieght forward.

This is somethign every boat has to go through. How to weight properly... startign at the speed you like to ride. There is no golden rule that works for every boat, but there are guidlines.

Faster + cleaner

More weight in the back means a better peak

More weight in the front usally cleans up the wake, but it becomes stretch out and mellower.

The shape of the wake you like, is just like the speed you want to ride at. Its personaly preference, but it can affect your ability to do tricks.
 

ThreeMileBayWaker

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Dec 17, 2009
Messages
342
Re: wake boarding tips

My boat likes 22mph and will stay on plane there. Anything less and she'll slowly fall off plane. My boat is 21'.. with 4.3L and i'm 195-200lbs.
 

Bass_boy7

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jan 18, 2008
Messages
161
Re: wake boarding tips

first off you need to be going anywhere between 20-25 mph any faster you will lose the nice wake, secondly add some fat sacs to yuor boat to get a bigger wake up, when turning you need to power up to compensate for the drag on your turns as well don't turn sharply start your turn far enough out and slowly straighten out then turn some more etc until you have compeleted the turn then figure 8 across your old wake and follow the same line to minimize the amount of waves so the rider can get more time to cut and come across the wake. Just a few points I am a semi-pro rider we ride a mastercraft x-star when wakeboarding but this should help you a little bit with your boat its all in the driving
 

craze1cars

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Dec 26, 2004
Messages
1,822
Re: wake boarding tips

All good tips, but let's be clear...there is no such thing as "resolving" this problem on an I/O for wakeboarding purposes.

What many are failing to remember is that you are fighting two forces...the tendency of the boat to want to fall off plane at the slow wakeboarding speeds (which has been discussed here in many replies), BUT ALSO, and more important, is the inconsistencies of the wakeboarder pulling the boat around doing various maneuvers and tricks. An aggressive wakeboarder WILL slow the boat down a few MPH during an aggressive cut....he's loading the rope, harnessing as much energy out of the boat as possible, and in the process is essentially slamming on the brakes. So if driver tries to compensate for this by thottling up a touch, the driver WILL screw up the trick that the wakeboarder is trying to set up. And as soon as the trick is over, the boat will accellerate to "too fast" and time is wasted while the driver needs to bump the throttle down to restore the wake and the "happy speed" for the rider. And if you have varying groups of people you ride with and a large number of drivers who are not accustomed to a particular boat, it can really compound the problem.

We fought this cycle for the better part of a decade...being too cheap to invest in a good Inboard or V-drive, and preferring to keep money in the bank while using a few different I/O's and trying to "make do" for wakeboarding. And we did OK and had fun. And we tried foils, smart tabs, countless ballast arrangements and weights, 3/4/5 blade props, different boats, etc. None solved the problem, some helped a little, some hurt a little.

FINALLY, I spent $1,200 and installed PerfectPass Stargazer on one of our I/O's. Problem fully solved. Period. EVERYONE involved is happy....new drivers, experienced drivers, new wakeboarders, and experienced wakeboarders. EVEN the most inexperienced, intimidated person is capable of simply steering in a straight line after pushing a button until it says 21.5 mph on the screen and taking off at appropriate throttle. Seem too fast for the rider? Maybe try 21.2 next time. It's AWESOME. Some in our group have learned to land new tricks this year that we fought to figure out over SEVERAL years because of the speed and inconsistency problems. I'm able to focus more on watching others, and on landing some new tricks on my own, because I now have several new drivers who previously got tired of the throttle jockey dance and associated complaints, nearly gave up on driving. But now they love to drive. And EVERYONE holds perfect speed, EVERY TIME. And depending on the dynamics of your group, I believe this dang computer has the power to save a friendship or a marriage! LOL. Have you ever seen someone snap at his wife because she couldn't drive consistenly enough? Fortunately I haven't. But I understand it happens. And I've had some friends stay politely quiet, but then mutter under their breath in relief after "so-and-so" finally gave up the wheel or went home, so a better driver could take over.

How about safety? Especially the less experienced drivers...What's safer? 1. Driving with eyes constantly darting between speedo and water, one hand on wheel, other on throttle, stressing over that needle creeping up/down and bumping the throttle a different direction every 10 seconds. OR 2. Driving with both hands on wheel, totally relaxed, with absolutely no reason to even look at the speedo or touch the throttle, eyes scanning the water for the smoothest water and/or hazards 100% of the time.

As for what is a good speed? I think this depends on skill level and what you're trying to do. Some here have said 22 is a good speed. And I'm pretty happy there. But I gotta tell ya, I feel that's a bit too fast to learn board control if you're a beginner. Many of the beginners learning surface turn-arounds and basic board control have been MUCH MUCH happier on my boat when we set our speed around 18. They learn much faster and fall less often. Then when they have good balance and it's time to learn to jump bigger, we'll run closer to 20 or 21. And the experienced riders in my group doing bigger tricks seem to prefer 23-ish. However those higher speeds require a whole lot more balast to keep the wake big, because the wake is MUCH larger at 19 to 20 than it is at 23 on most I/O's. Then again, you do NOT need a big wake to do a big trick...but that's an entirely different topic.

We had no idea how incredibly sensitive wakeboarding/learning/wake size/consistency is related to boat speed. I wouldn't have believed this until I got the system....but trust me, 0.5 mph can make a really big difference at times. And I believe that varying up/down by 2 mph or more during a ride is simply a recipe for REALLY retarding the learning process in this sport.

The system can easily hold 6mph, 10mph, 14mph, 22mph, and obviously 30 to 35 mph for slalom runs. And every speed in-between in 0.3mph increments. No driver can do that, no matter how skilled. ESPECIALLY with an I/O. And no analog gauge on the dash can even show you if you are even that close to being consistent. GPS digital gauge can. Perfect Pass speed varies just a little depending on the strength of the pull, but it recovers and reacts to pretty much anything very very quickly...and most importantly, with computer-driven consistency.

Can ya tell I like it?

But as a fellow cheapo, I'm realistic. I know it's awful expensive and hard to justify, and some cannot afford it. But if you have the means, and have maybe been sitting on the fence (as I did for years) I have two words for you: BUY IT. You will have NO REGRETS after your first day on the water. It is the single best wakeboarding improvement I have ever accomplished with my pocketbook. I wasted almost 10 years without it, and I can now confidentally tell you that not having it has hurt my progress in this sport...and I didn't realize it one bit until AFTER I dropped the cash on the accessory. At a relatively ripe age I'm now starting to move forward again and learning some new stuff.

And I will repeat one more recommendation that's been stated in response to a couple suggestions here. Do NOT buy Smart Tabs if you're going to be wakeboarding. I know this because I did. And I am not dissing the product in any way. They improve EVERY SINGLE ASPECT OF BOAT HANDLING, and they are indeed an awesome product, and they will help your boat hold steadier lower speeds. All good. BUT, and this is a HUGE "BUT", they completely DESTROY a good wake for wakeboarding. So alternately, you can buy them, but make sure you get the quick release rope system they offer. And then make darn sure to pull those tabs up and out of the way for wakeboarding, because you will NOT want them down when you're riding on a wakeboard.
 

SeanT

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 8, 2009
Messages
661
Re: wake boarding tips

Try 23mph and see how that goes. That's what I board at, but I'm also quite large (which I seem to mention a lot here on iBoats) and anything slower makes it more work for me.

Once you are properly on plane there should be less speed adjustments (you won't eliminate them of course).
 

Bass_boy7

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jan 18, 2008
Messages
161
Re: wake boarding tips

yes the perfect is indeed the best tool out there thats the only way we ride, so good on you for investing in one for sure.
 

tgell001

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
Messages
213
Re: wake boarding tips

but if you DONT want to spend 1200 bucks just try a little faster, its all boat specific and weight specific. My boat likes 21-23 depending on what bags i fill up, where i put them, whos with me, how much gas i have left. Just play with it and dont be afraid of a little speed, most beginners wont even notice 1 mph and theyll thank you in the end for the consitancy.
 

craze1cars

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Dec 26, 2004
Messages
1,822
Re: wake boarding tips

Try 23mph and see how that goes. That's what I board at, but I'm also quite large (which I seem to mention a lot here on iBoats) and anything slower makes it more work for me.

Once you are properly on plane there should be less speed adjustments (you won't eliminate them of course).

You bring up a very good point that I neglected to mention. Rider weight makes a HUGE (pun intended) difference. Heavier riders simply must have higher speeds so their boards don't sink. 150 pounders trying to learn surface tricks can skedaddle all over the water at 18 mph as happy as a water bug. But a 250 pounder at that same speed will be dragging hard and the board will barely be on plane...even if the board is properly sized for the rider. That can make things very difficult, and therefore added speed will almost always be necessary for bigger folks.

And one last comment regarding everyone comparing and suggesting riding speeds on this site. All of my comments referred to GPS speed. Not sure about everyone else's. I've learned through much of our experimenting across boats, that GPS speed vs. factory Boat speedo speed are often two entirely different numbers. And usually the boat speedo is the slightly optimistic figure. Therefore, I'd speculate that several people here who reportedly are happy riding 22-23 mph behind their I/O's for example, are PROBABLY doing 19-21, if you were to double-check their reported speed with a GPS. Of course I'm not on anyone else's boat...so that's only speculation, and likely not a true statement for everyone.
But I believe it is another variable to consider.
 

kyle f

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Sep 5, 2007
Messages
408
Re: wake boarding tips

You bring up a very good point that I neglected to mention. Rider weight makes a HUGE (pun intended) difference. Heavier riders simply must have higher speeds so their boards don't sink. 150 pounders trying to learn surface tricks can skedaddle all over the water at 18 mph as happy as a water bug. But a 250 pounder at that same speed will be dragging hard and the board will barely be on plane...even if the board is properly sized for the rider. That can make things very difficult, and therefore added speed will almost always be necessary for bigger folks.

And one last comment regarding everyone comparing and suggesting riding speeds on this site. All of my comments referred to GPS speed. Not sure about everyone else's. I've learned through much of our experimenting across boats, that GPS speed vs. factory Boat speedo speed are often two entirely different numbers. And usually the boat speedo is the slightly optimistic figure. Therefore, I'd speculate that several people here who reportedly are happy riding 22-23 mph behind their I/O's for example, are PROBABLY doing 19-21, if you were to double-check their reported speed with a GPS. Of course I'm not on anyone else's boat...so that's only speculation, and likely not a true statement for everyone.
But I believe it is another variable to consider.

Also I would like to add that evne perfect pass systems can vary greatly from boat to boat, unless they are the GPS based Star gazer system. The paddle wheels require calibaration. On my boat I ride at 23, almost gurantee its actually about 21... on my buddys Moomba we have to set it around 25 for it to feel the same.
 
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