Warrantless Search

LuckyPenny

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Feb 21, 2003
Messages
256
Can someone explain to me how the coast guard can get away with warrantless searches. Safety checks I can understand and usually welcome them. If I have a safety issue, I want to know about it and correct it. But to search my boat from stem to stern, going through all of my effects, that is something else. <br /><br />I just want the same rights that an illegal has driving down the interstate.
 

ob

Admiral
Joined
Aug 16, 2002
Messages
6,992
Re: Warrantless Search

Did you ask the Coast Guard?As far as I understand the jurisdiction laws that govern searches by the Coast guard in open water,any search is warranted.I've had the Coast Guard,post 911,actually tie up along side and board my 15 ft Whaler.
 

LuckyPenny

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Feb 21, 2003
Messages
256
Re: Warrantless Search

From what I have seen happen to others, asking them is a challenge to their authority, and you could very well get towed in.
 

ob

Admiral
Joined
Aug 16, 2002
Messages
6,992
Re: Warrantless Search

Originally posted by Luckypenny:<br /> From what I have seen happen to others, asking them is a challenge to their authority, and you could very well get towed in.
Call the local Coast Guard office and see what reply they give.
 

tommays

Admiral
Joined
Jul 4, 2004
Messages
6,768
Re: Warrantless Search

I see cars get tosssed on th NJ turnpike everytime i go to Delaware <br /><br />tommays
 

Terry Olson

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Aug 20, 2005
Messages
415
Re: Warrantless Search

Fellas - there are a lot of justifications for warrantless searches. The most common is the consent but don't forget about Probable Cause. There are others relating to a vehicle the inventory of the contents of a vehicle being towed and don't forget that a person can be searched incident to their custodial arrest as well as the area under their immediate control at the time of the arrest. <br /><br />I'm not justifying every search that happens anywhere but the mere fact that you see law enforcement conducting a search isn't evidence that someone's civil rights are being trampled. No doubt some searches aren't justified. At the same time it's unfair to assume otherwise when you have no way to know what happened or why. <br /><br />Don't forget that improperly obtained evidence is not admissable in court. What then is the point in recovering contraband or evidence of a crime improperly? It's not like cops work on a commission. The job pays the same either way. <br /><br />There are exceptions for the Coast Guard, U.S. Customs, and others but I'm not very familiar with them.
 

txswinner

Banned
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Messages
2,326
Re: Warrantless Search

Contact the local Coast Guard office and get the OD. Safety check yes, warrantless search without probable cause NO, NO NO. Earlier remark was correct to not confront, you could win the point but costly to prove abuse of power. On the other hand our Coast Guard has a tough job.
 

KaGee

Admiral
Joined
Aug 14, 2004
Messages
7,069
Re: Warrantless Search

<br />Federal Requirements and Safety Tips for Recreational Boats<br /><br />U.S. Coast Guard Boarding Policy<br /><br />The U.S. Coast Guard is the primary maritime law enforcement agency of the U.S.<br /><br />Authority: Section 89 of Title 14 of the United States Code authorizes the Coast Guard to board vessels subject to the jurisdiction of the U.S., anytime upon the high seas and upon waters over which the United States has jurisdiction, to make inquiries, examinations, inspections, searches, seizures and arrests.<br /><br />What to expect: A uniformed CG boarding team will notify you that they are coming aboard to conduct a CG boarding. Like other law enforcement officers, they will be armed. Once on board they will conduct an initial safety inspection to identify any obvious safety hazards, and to ensure the sea worthiness of your vessel. The boarding officer will then ask to see the vessel registration or documentation, and proceed to inspect your vessel. The scope of the vessel inspection, during most boardings, is limited to determining the vessel's regulatory status (e.g. commercial, recreational, passenger, cargo, and/or fishing vessel) and checking for compliance with U.S. civil law applicable to vessels of that status. The CG may also enforce U.S. criminal law. The boarding officer will complete a Coast Guard boarding form, and note any discrepancies. You will get a signed copy before they depart. <br /><br />Report of Boarding: When a CG boarding officer issues you a boarding report, they will either issue a yellow copy, if no discrepancies were noted, or a white copy if there were. A white copy will indicate a warning or a notice of violation. The CG boarding officer should explain the procedures to follow in each case. In any event, those procedures are written on the reverse of the form. If you have any questions ask the CG boarding officer, or call the U.S. Coast Guard Infoline at 800-368-5647.<br />
 

rolmops

Vice Admiral
Joined
Feb 24, 2002
Messages
5,518
Re: Warrantless Search

Around here there is a group of volunteer coast guard auxilaries who have taken it upon themselves to board every vessel they can find,including mine.<br />It is your right to refuse a boarding by a coast guard officer unless there is probable cause.I have seen the auxilaries being chewed out by a real coast guard officer for being over zealous.They now offer courtesy safety inspections instead.<br />The reason for this,at least in NY state,is a terrible accident that happened on lake George last year when a party boat with over forty people on it capsized and more then thirty people died
 

KaGee

Admiral
Joined
Aug 14, 2004
Messages
7,069
Re: Warrantless Search

Sec. 89 is quite clear. "probable cause" is not mentioned.
 

Gary H NC

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Dec 1, 2005
Messages
8,972
Re: Warrantless Search

That pretty well sums it up! <br />Thanks for the info KaGee... :cool:
 

Haut Medoc

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jun 29, 2004
Messages
10,645
Re: Warrantless Search

Free reign!<br />Just the way Dubya likes it!.....<br />& he didn't have to lift a finger!.....<br />I think that they have a little too much "Freeboard", IMHO......JK
 

Drowned Rat

Captain
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Messages
3,070
Re: Warrantless Search

The Coast Guard can not search your boat without probable cause. They can board your vessel and they can look around where ever needed to perform their safety checks, but they cannot go into compartments outside of those boundaries without probable cause. Many people are confused about what the Coast Guard may be doing while performing their safety and registration checks. Technically, all bilge areas are subject to search to make sure no flammable liquids are present. No probable cause needed. Documented vessels can be search practically everywhere to find the Documentation number. Cabinets, lockers and the like are off limits unless a reason to search those areas presents it's self. Luckypenny, did they search through your cabinets? Most likely the rest of your boat was a legal search. They can always play the "officer safety" card too and search all areas big enough to hold a person to make sure they didn't miss anyone who might jump out of a hold and shoot them. Really, cabinets, and small lockers are the only areas that are off limits without cause. A reason can be conjured to search all other areas legally. It is the law.<br /><br />On another note. If your boat has no or wrong or conflicting registration information posted, a stem to stern search is warranted. This falls under customs law which Coast Guard officers have jurisdiction. For example, you have California registration numbers, but you present an Arizona registration card. You're flying any countries flag other than the US flag. You're entering US waters from offshore under any circustances except force majeure. Even flying the Jolly Roger exposes you to a stem to stern search because the flag technically means you claim no citizenship. <br /><br />So good luck! You may as well get used to it, because the law isn't going to change anytime soon. :p
 

RubberFrog

Rear Admiral
Joined
Apr 9, 2005
Messages
4,268
Re: Warrantless Search

Originally posted by Drowned Rat:<br />...You may as well get used to it, because the law isn't going to change anytime soon....
Yeah, that's how America works... just get used to jack booted thugs violating your rights and abusing your property....
 

KaGee

Admiral
Joined
Aug 14, 2004
Messages
7,069
Re: Warrantless Search

Originally posted by Haut Medoc:<br /> Free reign!<br />Just the way Dubya likes it!.....<br />&
GAWD you guys are OBSESSED with W! Been boating for over 20 years on a major waterway... CG has been boarding for as long as I can remember.<br /><br />Don't want to be boarded? Play by the rules and chances are great you will never be bothered.
 

kenimpzoom

Rear Admiral
Joined
Jul 13, 2002
Messages
4,807
Re: Warrantless Search

Coast guard here in my area didn't board us, only asked to see life jackets and fire extinguisher.<br /><br />However, they are very aggresive in the waters around the Houston Ship Channel for very good reasons. I have seen them in full SWAT outfits doing drills. They will board your boat and helicopters will fly over if you get too close to certain areas. All for very good reasons.<br /><br />Ken
 
Joined
Jun 1, 2005
Messages
4,666
Re: Warrantless Search

Originally posted by RubberFrog:<br />
Originally posted by Drowned Rat:<br />...You may as well get used to it, because the law isn't going to change anytime soon....
Yeah, that's how America works... just get used to jack booted thugs violating your rights and abusing your property....
This is off topic but probably as warranted as the search conducted on Luckypenny. Can anyone name in order the fish that morph in the latex amphibians' avatar? I see the subtle difference between the Marlin and Sword fish, but that bullnose thing has me stupmped.
 

ufm82

Master Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 29, 2003
Messages
827
Re: Warrantless Search

RubberFrog, can you please tell us the last time jack-booted thugs came and violated your rights and abused your property?<br /><br /> You are free to leave the country at any time. I'm sure you'll find somewhere out there where no one will bother you.<br /><br />UFM82
 

Drowned Rat

Captain
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Messages
3,070
Re: Warrantless Search

So sorry RF, but the rules the Coast Guard follow exist for a reason. Did they scuff your yacht's deck with their boots or something, or are you just regurgitating what you've heard other people say? BTW, what rights are they violating? Please quote the pertinent CFR.
 
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