Was I in the wrong?

[LazyCruiser]

Howdy all.....
We are new boaters, dumb as a box of rocks. But we're trying and we're learning.

Today we were about 1.5 miles out in Lake Champlain, motor off & just drifting and BS'ing and enjoying it all. Along came a sailboat bearing down on us at a fast clip with the crew feverishly working to avoid a collision. They very narrowly missed us, veering off at the last possible moment and missing us by about 12' !!!

Now I know that sailboats get the right of way, but I was told I probably was at fault in this incident. So, I'm confused. Just drifting in open water and not under power,,,,,,,Could I really have been in the wrong here? It's a really humongous lake !!!

thanks for any input

 

[lunkerv16]

Re: Was I in the wrong?

I would say if you were just drifting then you have the right away.

 

[Turn-n-Burn]

Re: Was I in the wrong?

it was his responsibilty to stay clear since he was overtaking you.....JMO

 

[spikeitaudi]

Re: Was I in the wrong?

If you are drifting then you most likely have the right of way, but how would he be able to tell and you don't have anchor out so. Its not like he is listening for your engine. At the sametime all boats have the responsibility to stay away from each other especialy if the boat is in your kill zone. So were you in his kill zone? If so, he should of made plans well ahead of time to move.

Also, if he was getting to close for comfort why didn't you just startup quickly and motor out of there? Better to be safe then sorry. Even if it was his fault if he hit you, sounds like you had the ability to quickly get underway and get out of a potential accident. I have had to do that twice this year.

If you haven't taken the Boaters Safety course yet, I would suggest you do that as well.

 

[foodfisher]

Re: Was I in the wrong?

He was underway, you weren't. It was his responsibility to avoid you. IMHO

 

[Beefer]

Re: Was I in the wrong?

The 'overtaking' vessel is the stand-down vessel, and is required to give way to the vessel being overtaken. If a sailboat is overtaking a motorboat, the sailboat is still the stand-down vessel (obviously either a really fast sailboat, or a really slow motorboat). Sailboats don't always have the right of way.

As far as starting the engine really quickly and getting out of his way, what if he was broken down? (just saying) Should those who are drifting move out of every powered vessel's way?

 

[LazyCruiser]

Re: Was I in the wrong?

Also, if he was getting to close for comfort why didn't you just startup quickly and motor out of there? Better to be safe then sorry. Even if it was his fault if he hit you, sounds like you had the ability to quickly get underway and get out of a potential accident. I have had to do that twice this year.

If you haven't taken the Boaters Safety course yet, I would suggest you do that as well.

The move to make would have actually been in reverse, and truth be told I don't think we would have gotten started & backing up kwik enough.

Boater safety course? Definitely, we;re looking into it now.

Thanks for the opinions - appreciated.....

 

[NYBo]

Re: Was I in the wrong?

He was underway, you weren't. It was his responsibility to avoid you. IMHO

Technically, a boat that is drifting is underway. But I believe he is still the stand-on vessel.

 

[spikeitaudi]

Re: Was I in the wrong?

The 'overtaking' vessel is the stand-down vessel, and is required to give way to the vessel being overtaken. If a sailboat is overtaking a motorboat, the sailboat is still the stand-down vessel (obviously either a really fast sailboat, or a really slow motorboat). Sailboats don't always have the right of way.

As far as starting the engine really quickly and getting out of his way, what if he was broken down? (just saying) Should those who are drifting move out of every powered vessel's way?

Well if he was broken down then he should have had his anchor out. No, those just drifting should not move out of the way. But if he hits you and you are drifting, and you could of moved to prevent it, you should. There are alot of rules that we all know should be followed, but that doesn't mean they are. So for me I take it as I know what should be done, but if I can avoid an accident because the numbnuts that is coming at me isn't turning on my port side, then I will move. Also they never said the sailboat was under power. It could of been sailing by the wind.

 

[spikeitaudi]

Re: Was I in the wrong?

The move to make would have actually been in reverse, and truth be told I don't think we would have gotten started & backing up kwik enough.

Boater safety course? Definitely, we;re looking into it now.

Thanks for the opinions - appreciated.....

He most likely should of moved, but Sailboats under wind power sometimes don't turn as easy as a powered boat.

 

[foodfisher]

Re: Was I in the wrong?

Technically bovine flatulence is dairyairCommon sense is usually right. Lately, common sense sense isn't.

 

[EddiePetty]

Re: Was I in the wrong?

Technically, a boat that is drifting is underway......

...actually, a boat that is drifting is MAKING WAY !!!!!

 

[smokeonthewater]

Re: Was I in the wrong?

making way is irrelevant... UNDER POWER is what matters.... the drifting boat was not under power and the crew of the sail boat was 100% in the wrong.... if they were in control of their boat they could EASILY have avoided you MUCH more safely.... If they couldn't then they were negligent... To say that the drifting boat was supposed to yeild would indicate that a kayaker should accelerate and dodge a fast sailboat running at 20 knots too....

The idea that sailboats have right of way comes in meeting them.... You don't force a sailboat to change coarse in a meeting because they may not be able to sail in the direction that a motor boat would travel to avoid you and they often can't make an unplanned change of course quickly. BUT they have no business planning a route that causes others to have to run from them....

Now as others have mentioned... were I drifting there is no way I would let a blowboat come within a foot of hitting me if I had an engine.... You should have been watching them for a long time... Start up, avoid the accident and stay alive

 

[Stachi]

Re: Was I in the wrong?

If you are drifting then you most likely have the right of way, but how would he be able to tell and you don't have anchor out so. Its not like he is listening for your engine. At the sametime all boats have the responsibility to stay away from each other especialy if the boat is in your kill zone. So were you in his kill zone? If so, he should of made plans well ahead of time to move.

Also, if he was getting to close for comfort why didn't you just startup quickly and motor out of there? Better to be safe then sorry. Even if it was his fault if he hit you, sounds like you had the ability to quickly get underway and get out of a potential accident. I have had to do that twice this year.

If you haven't taken the Boaters Safety course yet, I would suggest you do that as well.

a motor boat will produce a bow splash and wake when underway...easily seen by anyone looking... sounds to me like an inexperienced captain and crew on the sail bote...

 

[Beefer]

Re: Was I in the wrong?

Also they never said the sailboat was under power. It could of been sailing by the wind.

Wind power is considered under power. I never said anything about a motor.

As for not being anchored if broken down, there is no law or rule (other than safety and common sense) that says you must anchor if disabled. Besides, what if he was in the 400' deep area of Lk Champlain? Do you carry 3000' of rode for an area like that?

I do not believe that a boat at drift is considered by anyone to be 'under power'.

The blowboat was in the wrong.

 

[pmillar]

Re: Was I in the wrong?

As someone with many more hours logged on sailboats than powerboats, I have to say the sailboat captain messed up. They never should have come so close whether or not the powerboat had his engine on - although they should have noticed he was not motoring anywhere.

Now as a longtime motorcycle rider, I would add that being right but dead is generally not a great idea. By that I mean even if you're in the right it's better to move out of the way of the cell phone talking, SUV driving soccer mom than it is to get hit. In this case, a quick wave or toot on the horn at the advancing sailboat may have been a good idea. Starting the engine and scooting out of the way would have been better... even though the sailboat captain would have been in the wrong.

 

[5150abf]

Re: Was I in the wrong?

You still need to take an active roll, if you were at an intersection and a car was SUPPOSE to stop and wasn't would you continue thru and hit him because he was suppose to stop, probably not.

I don't think I would just sit and watch a boat hit me because he was suppose to give way, being on the water is lfuid situation so to speak, things change fast and people don't always do what they are suppose to.

 

[JoLin]

Re: Was I in the wrong?

A few people here oughta take a boater safety course.

The OP's boat, drifting, is defined as a "vessel not under command" and was the 'stand-on' vessel. He had the right of way.

The sailboat, underway, was the 'stand to' vessel and required to give way.

This particular situation was an encounter between a boat that was 'underway' and a boat that was 'not under command'.

This was not an 'overtaking' situation. Overtaking is strictly defined as coming up on another boat from behind to pass. The term overtaking is also defined by the overtaking vessel's angle of approach. Outside that angle, you have a 'crossing' siutation and different rules apply.


The sailboat was not 'under power'. A sailboat is only under power when it is being propelled by a motor, in which case it is a 'powerboat' and subject to powerboat rules. If it operating under sail and power, it's still a powerboat.

Both vessels have a responsibility to try and avoid collision, regardless of who was 'supposed' to stand to (give way). If the OP saw a collision coming, could have taken action to avoid it but didn't, he would have shared responsibility for it.

My .02 (and thanks to the good folks at the United States Power Squadron, where I took this and several other valuable clases in boat operation and navigation)

 

[LazyCruiser]

Re: Was I in the wrong?

I'm the original poster

Interesting discussion! And I am learning, so thank you!

To clarify just a bit: We didn't even see this boat until it was about 20-25 secs away from nailing us. And what we first heard was the rattling of his sails.

Now the amusing part of this is that we were on a test drive as part of buying this boat and the owner was showing me this & that on the boat. As the sail boat was bearing down on us about 200' away (this is when I first saw it) I had 2 thoughts:
1 - This guy is gonna nail us broadside and it's gonna be an impressive collision.
2 - I'm really glad that I haven't handed over the down-payment check yet

thanks everyone - I really appreciate your thoughts and as I said, I'm learning from your input.

best boating to you all
LazyCruiser

ps- we bought the boat

 

[Bob's Garage]

Re: Was I in the wrong?

A few people here oughta take a boater safety course.

The OP's boat, drifting, is defined as a "vessel not under command" and was the 'stand-on' vessel. He had the right of way.

The sailboat, underway, was the 'stand to' vessel and required to give way.

This particular situation was an encounter between a boat that was 'underway' and a boat that was 'not under command'.

This was not an 'overtaking' situation. Overtaking is strictly defined as coming up on another boat from behind to pass. The term overtaking is also defined by the overtaking vessel's angle of approach. Outside that angle, you have a 'crossing' siutation and different rules apply.


The sailboat was not 'under power'. A sailboat is only under power when it is being propelled by a motor, in which case it is a 'powerboat' and subject to powerboat rules. If it operating under sail and power, it's still a powerboat.

Both vessels have a responsibility to try and avoid collision, regardless of who was 'supposed' to stand to (give way). If the OP saw a collision coming, could have taken action to avoid it but didn't, he would have shared responsibility for it.

My .02 (and thanks to the good folks at the United States Power Squadron, where I took this and several other valuable clases in boat operation and navigation)

Absolutely correct and I couldn't have said it better my self. (Fact, I wish I had said it!).

I am glad to see that our safety classes had such a positive effect on you. The only thing I would add, and this is for both operators, YOU MUST KEEP AN ACTIVE WATCH.

Failure to keep an alert watch contributes to more accidents and deaths than most anything else and can assist in avoiding most accidents on the water.

And in an accident investigation can result in either being blameless or culpable.