water in cylinder

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mnorton

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I have done a search on this topic yet am still frustrated. I have a 1973 Johnson 3 cyl 65 hp. Just bought the boat about a month ago. One day while out on lake, motor smoked and lost power. Took to mechanic and he tested compression. Stated that it was fine, however there was water in bottom cyl. He also said it did not appear like the motor overheated. Nothing melted and no discolleration on head. He suggested I get new head gasket, put new plugs in and change impeller. When head was off I checked with a straight edge for warpage. Did not appear to be any. I put new gasket on and the reccomended champion plugs. I checked the impeller and it looked ok. Put all back together using correct torque. Put muffs on and it started and idled ok. Pulled bottom plug and started again. Lots of what appeared to be a water gas mixture shot out of hole. this does not happen on the other 2 cyls. Good flow of water does come out of pee hole. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated. This is my first boat and I do not want it to be the last one. Sorry if I rambled.<br /><br />Norton
 
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Goodoleboy

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Re: water in cylinder

Could you post your compression numbers please. <br /><br />Good luck!
 
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mnorton

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Re: water in cylinder

Thanks for responding Goodoleboy. If I recall correctly, all 3 were arounnd 110. However, I am not 100% sure as it was about three weeks ago and I did not write them down. I just know the mech said they were fine, and he is a well respected boat mech here in Wisconsin Rapids. Been in business for over 20 years. <br /><br />Norton
 
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mnorton

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Re: water in cylinder

Part of my problem is I am moderately mechanically inclined and I like to do some tinkering, But that makes me afraid that I am making more problems for myself. Also, I am too darn cheap to pay the mechanic! Ahh, in the end I might be paying twice the amount...but hey I might learn something.
 
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Goodoleboy

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Re: water in cylinder

Welt if your gona work on your motor your gona have to get your self a compression gage.<br /><br />You want to know what your compression is now, After you have replaced your head gasket.<br /><br />I would think you will have a low reading on the bottom cylinder. But not nessiraly so. I have head of cylinders leaking water and still have good compression.<br /><br />If its still good, then I would pull the head and look at gasket and see if you can find an ireregular spot around a water passage. <br /><br />Check block surface to see if its not warped as well as all old gasket material or any type of crud that mite not let new gasket seat properly.<br /><br />Somethig isint sealed tight some place. We wont even think about a cracked block or head at this point.<br /><br />good luck!
 
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Goodoleboy

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Re: water in cylinder

It may also be possible your getting water in through the exaust port. <br /><br />You may have a leaking exaust cover gasket. You may want to check this out.<br /><br />Before you pull the head off again. Assueming you get a good compression reading on your motor. <br /><br />Good luck!
 
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mnorton

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Re: water in cylinder

AHHHH...Goodoleboy....you said "cracked head or block"....Ahhhhh. I was trying not to think about that! <br /><br />I went to wal-mart and got a compression tester. <br />Checked the compression of each 3 different times. <br /><br />Top cyl is 129<br />Middle is 121<br />Bottom is 122<br /><br />All plus or minus about 2 lbs as my tester went in incriments of 5. <br /><br />Thanks
 
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Goodoleboy

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Re: water in cylinder

Good numbers, not to worry. You dont have cracked block or head. Still gota check the exaust cover gasket. Bet ya a soda pop thats your trouble.<br /><br />Let us know what you find.<br /><br />Good luck!
 
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mnorton

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Re: water in cylinder

Well, that makes me feel better. :) Thanks for the info.I will check soon.
 
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mnorton

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Re: water in cylinder

Well, I am hoping you are right. It would ease my mind a lot. Before I start rippin itno things though, could you please take a look at this link and tell me which gasket you are refering to. I am thinking it is the one marked 28, 30, or 108. I hope this link works. Thanks again for all the help.<br /><br />norton<br /><br /> http://www.ishopmarine.com/ishop/js...~A0000022~M0016972~M0016979~M0016981~C0252039
 
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Goodoleboy

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Re: water in cylinder

I would buy all three. The inner baffel plate may be rusted/burned thru, and letting cooling water back to exaust port.<br /><br />I would take it all apart first before you order anything.<br /><br />Dont be suprised if that thing is a real pain to get apart. You may want to use a propane torch to apply heat to bolts.<br /><br />Good luck!
 
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mnorton

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Re: water in cylinder

Well Goodoleboy, I thank you for all your help!<br />I got the exhaust cover off, and to my surprise, the bolts were incredibly easy to take out. The hardest thing was the placement of some of them. Made me think that they were not tightened well enough in the first place. Looks like the gasket closest to the block was shot. There was sand and other residue piled up in the chamber. There was also a milky substance. I would imagine it was a combination of gas, oil, and water. I will order gaskets and should be good to go. Couple of questions first. Could this whole situation been the reason why when I put into drive sometimes it stalled out and why it would stall at low RPMS? Also, When I run with muffs on, could having the water all the way on cause a problem? Finally, do you know the torque and sequence for the exhaust bolts? Once again, Thanks for everything. I feel a whole lot better now.
 
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Goodoleboy

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Re: water in cylinder

Yes water geting into cylinder will most certinaly cause stalling and poor ideling. And could have destroied the engine at higher rpms. <br /><br />Broken crank shaft and block damaged passed possible repair. But anyways it didnt.<br /><br />The torque spec. for the bolts on exaust cover should go according to bolt size.<br /><br />1/4 bolts= 5-7 ft/LBS<br />5/16 bolts=10-12 ft/lbs<br />3/8 bolts= 18-20 ft/lbs<br />7/16 bolts= 28-30 ft/lbs<br /><br />If you are useing inch pound torque wrench, Just multiply these ft pound numbers x 12.<br /><br />Good luck!
 
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mnorton

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Re: water in cylinder

Well, I got the gaskets today. Finally. Need to know if I need to use any kind of gasket sealer on them? I did not have to on my head gasket, however, it said not to on the gasket. These new ones do not say that.<br /><br />Thanks in advance. <br /><br />norton
 
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djzyla1980

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Re: water in cylinder

I always use this rule of thumb.... <br />Not sure if it's right but it's worked for me for many years on all type of gaskets.<br /><br />Rubber, composite, heat sealing, or metal compressing ones no sealer<br /><br />Cork or paper... sealer<br /><br />I try not to use sealer as much as I can. I did however use a non sylicone sealer when I replaced head gaskets on my outboard... This was the first time I ever used a sealer on that type of gasket.. just to try and see how it works.
 
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Goodoleboy

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Re: water in cylinder

Yep coat both sides of new gaskets with OMC 1000 sealer. I dont know what other sealers are equivlent. <br /><br />Mabey one of the other guys can tell you if you cant find the OMC 1000.<br /><br />Good luck!
 
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krb113

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Jan 19, 2005
Messages
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Re: water in cylinder

I'm with Goodoleboy on the exhaust cover gasket. Buddy of mine had a 3 cyl. 65 hp Johnny that did just what you describe except on the mid. cylinder. That was the culprit and I still remember that from 20 yrs. ago!!<br /><br />Can't remember the year of the motor tho! Fixed that and we were back on the river skiing the next weekend. Check it out. The bottom cover is a ROYAL pain to get off tho.
 
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mnorton

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Re: water in cylinder

thanks for all the help! I will be putting it all back together this weekend, And yes, the bottom cover was a pain to get off! Hope to be back on the water soon, but it will be cold here in Wisconsin real quickly!
 
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mnorton

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Re: water in cylinder

Well, i was putting back together and had torque wrench set at 15 ft/lbs on a 7/16 bolt when ...crack.<br /><br />broken bolt. I had already tightnd up at 10ft/lbs and it seemed tight. I shoulda stoped there. Are you shure about those torque specs?<br /><br />Norton
 
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mnorton

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Sep 4, 2005
Messages
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Re: water in cylinder

i figured out what I did wrong. i was using the wrench size for bolt size...ooops. With all the bolts torqued at 10 lbs, when they should be at 5 - 7, will that screw my gaskets up? Will I need to get new ones? I will use what I got and test it. Just wondering your thoughts.<br /><br />Norton
 
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