Water in No. 2 cylinder-Backfire issue-New motor recommended

[1994 5.0LMercuryAlphaOne]

Bad news from marina. The third shop to look at boat. Found water in No. 2 cylinder. They performed a leak down test and found 30% leakage on three cylinders and others ranged between 15-30%. Put boat in water for test run and then did compression test. Said they found water while performing compression test.

This shop uses Jasper rebuilt motors. A friend in Nashville owns a marina and his mechanic also uses Jasper when performing replacements.

4400 deer is quote for what I'm told is a long block replacement. They will use many of the components from my motor.
My carb has been rebuilt. New shift control installed last year. Bellows replaced last year when tilt/trim switches replaced. I'm told the outdrive is in good shape. I don't see any major expenses down the road.

This is a subjective decision. I'm leaning toward the new motor over another boat. Two daughters. One getting married and one going to college $$$$$$. I don't have funds to buy new boat. Don't wish to by another unknown used boat.

Looking for some direction and suggestions.
Thanx

 

[kewlkatdady]

Re: Water in No. 2 cylinder-Backfire issue-New motor recommended

sounds like a good candidate for a new motor to me. It would be tough to get a solid boat with a good drive and a new motor for less than $5000 around here.

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Water in No. 2 cylinder-Backfire issue-New motor recommended

Unless I am totally missing something here, your motor might not have much damage at all. You have an exhaust manifold/riser/valve issue. You might not ( and probably don't) need a new long block at all. How about a shop or you actually inspecting the manifolds/risers, and pulling a valve cover to see if the valves are opening/closing all the way? That's where I'd start, not with a long block. Not yet, anyway.

 

[1994 5.0LMercuryAlphaOne]

Re: Water in No. 2 cylinder-Backfire issue-New motor recommended

They said the leakdown test showed significant leakage. The boat backfires under load. I have been posting under a separate post my mechanical journey over the past year with the backfiring issue.
Are you saying the water could be getting into the cylinder by means other than a crack?
With the leak down results should I assume I'm in need of some sort of repair?
I'm running out of mechanics around the lake.
Can someone take the time to give me a check list: do this first, second, third.....

 

[Bondo]

Re: Water in No. 2 cylinder-Backfire issue-New motor recommended

The boat backfires under load. I have been posting under a separate post my mechanical journey over the past year with the backfiring issue.

Ayuh,... Backfire under load is usually a lean fuel condition...

Gota link to yer old thread, for reviewin' purposes,..??

edit: Nevermind, I found it...
You need a Mechanic, Not a new motor....

 

[1994 5.0LMercuryAlphaOne]

Re: Water in No. 2 cylinder-Backfire issue-New motor recommended

Thank you for linking my previous posts!
I've got the boat at a large marina on Lake Hartwell. The first marina has a "Merc" mechanic. The two mechanics sandwiched between the marinas were referrals. This last one was my idea. Owner of marina says they spend a lot of money on training and are the best.:facepalm: I live in the Atlanta area. Does anyone know a Mechanic in Atlanta?:

 

[1994 5.0LMercuryAlphaOne]

Re: Water in No. 2 cylinder-Backfire issue-New motor recommended

Bubba
How does this sound? " OK, before I spend $4400 on a reman motor I'd like you guys to remove the heads and manifolds and see if anything obvious jumps out that might save me the headache/cost of a reman motor." labor cost is $75/hr.
What about the leakage noted by the leakdown test? 30% is that high? At what point do I go for the reman motor? I have only owned this boat for 2 1/2 years. I can't say it's been meticulously maintained all its life.
And I still need a name of a mechanic. It appears that I have yet to find one!
I'm thinking about a new post asking for referrals. Here I go.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Water in No. 2 cylinder-Backfire issue-New motor recommended

What about the leakage noted by the leakdown test? 30% is that high?

Ayuh,... Being an ole shadetree Mechanic,...
I'm more concerned with Where he heard the leakage, more than any %'s...
By Listening, you can hear whether it's intake valves, or exhaust valves, or rings....

Compression test (done 150-160 range).

That says there's Nothing wrong with that motor, as far as replacin' the long block....

I Still say you're fightin' a Fuel Delivery Issue....

 

[infideltarget]

Re: Water in No. 2 cylinder-Backfire issue-New motor recommended

Thank you for linking my previous posts!
I've got the boat at a large marina on Lake Hartwell. The first marina has a "Merc" mechanic. The two mechanics sandwiched between the marinas were referrals. This last one was my idea. Owner of marina says they spend a lot of money on training and are the best.:facepalm: I live in the Atlanta area. Does anyone know a Mechanic in Atlanta?:

How far north of ATL are you willing to go to get it fixed correctly? I can PM you a name and number for an excellent shop if you are willing to travel to Chattanooga.

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Water in No. 2 cylinder-Backfire issue-New motor recommended

Bubba and Bond-o thanks for backing me up on this. I HATE to see the uneducated get ripped off.

 

[1994 5.0LMercuryAlphaOne]

Re: Water in No. 2 cylinder-Backfire issue-New motor recommended

Spoke to Merc representative today. She agreed that purchasing reman block is premature until heads and manifolds have been inspected. Said 30% leakage is outside Merc acceptable range, but just as important is where the leakage is occurring (exhaust, intake or rings).
Implied that if leakage was at rings a reman long block may be most cost effective.
Questions:
Will they be installing/using my present heads and manifolds with a reman long block?
If so, what is lost by removing them now and inspecting. They have to come off reguardless right?
If the intake valves are leaking the air should be heard through the carb right?
What locations will you hear air leaking from exhaust valve or rings?

 

[Bondo]

Re: Water in No. 2 cylinder-Backfire issue-New motor recommended

Questions:
Will they be installing/using my present heads and manifolds with a reman long block?If so, what is lost by removing them now and inspecting. They have to come off reguardless right?
If the intake valves are leaking the air should be heard through the carb right?
What locations will you hear air leaking from exhaust valve or rings?

Ayuh,... A Long block comes With heads...
A Short block coes Without heads...
Manifolds, both intake or exhaust Don't come with either block assemblies...

Leakage through the intake valves is heard through the carb...
Exhaust valve leakage is heard through the exhaust ports, or manifolds...
Ring leakage is heard through the oil fill, or valve covers...

 

[1994 5.0LMercuryAlphaOne]

Re: Water in No. 2 cylinder-Backfire issue-New motor recommended

Thank you Bond-o
I have read a few posts about one and two piece manifolds. If I do not have the two piece should I be converting over?

 

[Bondo]

Re: Water in No. 2 cylinder-Backfire issue-New motor recommended

Thank you Bond-o
I have read a few posts about one and two piece manifolds. If I do not have the two piece should I be converting over?

Ayuh,... They were used on the V6,...
You have a V8...

 

[1994 5.0LMercuryAlphaOne]

Re: Water in No. 2 cylinder-Backfire issue-New motor recommended

Spoke to service manager on Sat. He said the motor has 30% leakage on four cylinders that can be heard through the crankcase/dip stick. 15-20% leakage on other cylinders. He said he could continue to trouble shoot the motor if I wished to continue to pay the hourly rate. He said they do not rebuild motors at the marina (just replace). I don't want to pay another $350-400 to be told I need a new motor by him or another mechanic. I believe the ring leakage magnifies my cost as opposed to valves?
His case is this:the boat is a '94 with unknown hours, significant leakage at rings on four cylinders and leakage he deems high on the others. Question: What is my most cost effective route for getting my boat back on the water? I not saying "cheap". I want to keep this boat and have it be reliable.

 

[Jasen]

Re: Water in No. 2 cylinder-Backfire issue-New motor recommended

You need a technician, not a mechanic. If the marina doesn't have the know how to do internal engine repairs, go somewhere else. I spent years as an automotive technician and watched "mechanics" sell people engines, when they just needed valve springs because they didn't know anything about base engine diagnostics.
As stated above, water in the cylinders is likely coming from risers, manifolds, etc. A good shop with pressure test equipment, technical expertise and a boroscope can tell you where the leak is with minimal tear down. Backfires can be caused by a myriad of things other than internal engine failure. Leak down tests can be performed incorrectly and even faked. Wet and dry compression tests should also be performed to determine whether or not the cylinder leakage is rings or not.

 

[RZR2007]

Re: Water in No. 2 cylinder-Backfire issue-New motor recommended

What kind of warranty do you get with the new motor? Sometimes peace of mind can be priceless!

 

[1994 5.0LMercuryAlphaOne]

Re: Water in No. 2 cylinder-Backfire issue-New motor recommended

18 months part and labor. Jasper Motors is the supplier.

 

[RZR2007]

Re: Water in No. 2 cylinder-Backfire issue-New motor recommended

It would seem to me the money you have spent already, then add in the money you are still going to have to spend to find what the problem is, then the repair cost of the problem, the deeper it is, usually the deeper your pockets need to be. If the problem is in the top end, what kind of shape is the bottom end in? The problem could be a reasonably cheap fix (this time), or the repairs could cost you close to what a new motor would have cost. If it were me, and had 1 daughter getting married and another going to college and had the funds right now to put in a new motor with a warranty, I wouldn't hesitate...