Water Intake... STUMPED

flashback

Captain
Joined
Jun 28, 2002
Messages
3,987
Re: Water Intake... STUMPED

Why was the old impeller toasted? Are you sure the shaft is turning? I hope it is for your sake, but that's the only other thing I can think of..good luck ........
 

Don S

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Aug 31, 2004
Messages
62,321
Re: Water Intake... STUMPED

If you have the tube connected from the pump to the water tube, and you are sure the key is in the impeller, and you are sure the impeller will actually turn (turn the ujoint shaft by hand, you will feel the resistance of the impeller if it's turning.
If your old impeller lost it's blades, a common place for them to hang up is in the elbow that goes thru the transom shield. When water pressure is applied by the pump, it can force them tighter together and stop the water flow almost completely.
I would also make sure you can crank the engine and see if the shaft going into the drive is actually turning. You can have a friend crank the engine and you watch the shaft. If it doesn't turn, you have a bad coupler.
Like the other guys mentioned, don't mess with that water pocket unless you absolutly have to. There is nothing you can do with a broken bolt down in that housing, there just isn't room.

Here's a link to the free online OEM service manual for your drive.
http://www.boatfix.com/merc/Servmanl/6/6covr3.pdf
 

imported_TheMan

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Oct 19, 2006
Messages
224
Re: Water Intake... STUMPED

Thanks Don.

Already have a service manual, but its good to have the online copy to reference.

The water tube is connected. The key is in the impeller. The shaft will turn (I can start the motor up, put it in drive, and propeller spins fine). I was also able to turn the shaft by hand before i returned it to the upper housing, and yes, the impeller was providing resistance.

I'm going to disconnected the hose at the PS cooler and insert some form of wire back through the transom to make sure it is all clear. Perhaps the water I was pumping through it earlier had enough pressure to get by, whereas the pressure from the impeller doesn't. I also shot water up through the water tube with the lower unit removed and it made it up through the hose to the engine.

I am not entirely sure of when the impeller went bad. The boat was purchased used and the previous owner said he replaced the impeller, but the boat was still overheating. Later the next day after purchasing, my brother fired the boat up in the driveway for about 10-15 seconds without water. After yelling him to cut it, I was concerned the impeller was toast. I was doing a lot of engine tuning previously, and wasn't concerned with the pump. I have the engine running near flawlessly, but realized it was getting pretty hot awefully fast during the testing. I checked the thermostat, and it was fine. I had also previously flushed the block and exhaust manifolds, so they were clear. I then removed the intake hose from the thermostat housing and found no water to be pumping. I should have thought to replace the impeller immediately when it was started without water, but I was more concerned with the engine performance, and the brief periods I started the engine didn't heat it up, plus I had the block filled with water.

I do not know if the damage was caused by my brother or the previous owner. When I removed the lower unit, the impeller was mangled and the blade tips were gone. There was also obvious melting damage on the pump insert (solidified plastic on the walls). I found a few pieces of the blades in the intake. I wouldn't assume that the other pieces were sent up the pipe, but I guess it is possible.

Anyways, I'll double check the whole unit when I get home tonight and give an update. Like I said, I'm hoping for a stupid mistake I made somewhere along the line. I did the repair work at night on my porch, so I guess anything is possible (P.S., I hate this daylight savings stuff). Thanks for the input guys.

Brief history of the boat:
I purchased the boat with the intent of knowing it needed work. We paid 2k for the boat because the hull and interior were in great condition, the oil pressure was excellent, and the engine ran ok despite rocking and being reportedly "under powered." My brother and I purchased the boat together, and both being mediocre mechanics and engineers, decided we could work it out. The engine rocking problem was pretty quickly identified (thanks to the forum) as being improper firing order as the 3rd and 4th cylinders were not firing. After correcting that, I was still not getting any power out of the 3rd cylinder, although testing gave me a very very small spark. Replacing the spark plugs didn't help, so I went to the distributor cap. The cap appeared pretty clean, but the 3rd post was slightly off-kilt. I replaced the cap and the distributor rotor components. The spark was slightly better. I then adjusted the breaker point and the engine is firing like a champ. Amazing.

After I got the engine working, I was letting it run for a while to prepare it for an oil change. The temperature was getting pretty high, so I turned it off and let it cool. This is when I checked the thermostat and noted it was fine. Starting it up later is when I noticed there wasn't any water coming up from the lower unit, which is where I'm at now. Was hoping to give it a good test run this weekend, as my brother from the north is coming over with my other brother and his wife. Hopefully can get it worked out.
 

ziggy

Admiral
Joined
Jun 30, 2004
Messages
7,473
Re: Water Intake... STUMPED

There is nothing you can do with a broken bolt down in that housing, there just isn't room.

dons, remember achris? he had me make a block of steel, like the gasket. used that as a guide. a half inch piece of steel. i had one bolt that didn't break. screwed up my guide and drilled for 20 hrs i think. my sholder hurt all that summer from that. i've never drilled anything so hard as them bolts were. i did relearn how to sharpen a drill bit though. there's certainly no room for error as the aluminim will suck ya off center of corse if ya start driftin. i ended up with 4 helicoils and did get away with it. had mulitiple obsticals for sure. used a 12'' drill bit. special tap drivers from snap on. ya don't want to try it at all. but i had nothing to loose at that point by not trying.......that boat is history right now. but not for a leaking waterpocket cover or broke off bolts. you've said it proper for sure.
don't mess with that water pocket unless you absolutly have to.
 

imported_TheMan

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Oct 19, 2006
Messages
224
Re: Water Intake... STUMPED

Well, for a current update.. I tore the lower unit back out (again), and hooked my garden hose up to send water from the engine down and out the stern drive. The water came out no sweat and no leaks were identified around that cover. I guess that is a plus since I don't need to mess with it like you guys suggested I not. I was hoping it would be plugged though so I could identify a problem.

I took the water pump apart again. I didn't look that closely before, but I believe the previous owner really cranked on the housing, because the metal retainer (can't remember the exact name) appears to be more oval than circular. I think this is also causing the impellar blades to start to fail. The pump cover is also slightly deformed around the metal retainer. I'm not sure if this could prevent sealing and sending water up the pipes. The gaskets were wet and there apepared to be some water in the pump housing, so I think it is getting water. Still confused as hell! Anyway, just thought I'd give you an update. Maybe more beer will help.....
 

Don S

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Aug 31, 2004
Messages
62,321
Re: Water Intake... STUMPED

I've seen those pump housings all deformed from people overtightening the mounting nuts. And they WILL NOT PUMP. Replace the complete upper and lower houseing. Torque them properly and come back and tell us how nice it is to have water flowing again.


ziggy, I remember achris, but I must have missed that post. I have saved them, but not sure if I could explain how I did it. BTW, never heard much from him after his trip to Russia. Do you suppose they ............ Oh, never mind. Won't even go there :p
 

QC

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Mar 22, 2005
Messages
22,783
Re: Water Intake... STUMPED

FWIW, achris flipped out during Katrina. He posted a bunch of anti-american stuff on DC about how we treat blacks etc. and he vanished . . .
 

Don S

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Aug 31, 2004
Messages
62,321
Re: Water Intake... STUMPED

Thanks QC, since I don't visit the DC, I missed it.
 

imported_TheMan

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Oct 19, 2006
Messages
224
Re: Water Intake... STUMPED

Don,

My local west marine only carries the basic pump repair kit (PN:18-3217 - gaskets and impellar). I was going to order the Sierra entire pump repair kit (PN: 18-3320 - lower/upper/impellar/gaskets).
The images I have seen for this kit do not show the metal retaining cylinder. I was wondering if in your experience you have used these replacement and if they include the cylinder.

Thanks for the direction Don. I will let you know my relief when the water starts flowing again!
 

imported_TheMan

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Oct 19, 2006
Messages
224
Re: Water Intake... STUMPED

Don,

My local west marine only carries the basic pump repair kit (PN:18-3217 - gaskets and impellar). I was going to order the Sierra entire pump repair kit (PN: 18-3320 - lower/upper/impellar/gaskets).
The images I have seen for this kit do not show the metal retaining cylinder. I was wondering if in your experience you have used these replacement and if they include the cylinder.

Thanks for the direction Don. I will let you know my relief when the water starts flowing again!
 

imported_TheMan

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Oct 19, 2006
Messages
224
Re: Water Intake... STUMPED

I apologize for the double post. The part number was 18-3317 for my unit I believe to replace everything. $33.00 at boatfix.com.

Hard to beat.
 

imported_TheMan

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Oct 19, 2006
Messages
224
Re: Water Intake... STUMPED

Actually I have not ordered it yet, but plan to.
I looked at it one more time and didn't think it was too bad. Added another gasket and some sealant just to be safe.

The problem was my original concern of just simply not getting enough water up to the unit. I have well water and not the highest water pressure, but eventually I was able to get enough water up to the pump. Seems to be running fine now, but I will be replacing the housing soon anyways.
 

rodbolt

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 1, 2003
Messages
20,066
Re: Water Intake... STUMPED

if the upper housing is melted at all it usually wont pump, usually if the upper is melted so is the lower. ANY sign of melt is cause for that housings replacement. you most likly will need both the upper and lower housing kits.
about the only thing that melts them is a dry start on the trailer. they can melt in 30 seconds when dry started.
not only do the impellor vanes have to seal to the sides of the cup but on the top and bottom as well. the housing does not have to melt much at all for the cup and wear plate to recess and the pump is now just another piece of dead weight.
 

rebars1

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 23, 2004
Messages
744
Re: Water Intake... STUMPED

I used the 18-3320 kit for my Alpha 1, but you need to use the kit designated for your particular drive. It came with the stainless steel cup liner for the pump. Make sure the gaskets are properly oriented or you could block off the water passage into the pump.
 
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