Water Jacket corrosion, a tip and a couple of questions.

Franki

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Feb 16, 2002
Messages
1,059
Hi guys,<br /><br />If you have a ten + year old outboard, and its been running in alot of silt or you got it second hand and don't really know where its been or what it was doing.. <br /><br />I have a suggestion.. take off your head water jacket covers and have a look inside.<br /><br />Today, I went to take out one of the water jacket bolts so i could add an external water temp sensor for the right bank...<br /><br />I snapped it.., then snapped two others as well.. by that stage I figured it just had to come off and use ezeouts to get all the broken threads..<br /><br />Anyway, by the time I got the cover off, I had snapped all but one of the bolts.. and once the cover was off. I discovered why.<br /><br />It would appear that the gasket between the head and the cover on this model. (see my nickname) covers the channels moulded into the jacket cover entirely, but not water tight..<br /><br />What happened to me is that silt and corrosion had built up between the gasket and the cover and was slowly pushing the gasket material into the main water channels.. I kid you not, the gasket was over 1/4 inch thick in the channels..<br /><br />This rubbish had built up such that all of the bolts were stuck in it.. and all of them snapped off about 6mm from the surface of the head. (luckly for me, I should be able to get them all out now.)<br /><br />Anyway, my suggestion is to take off the water jackets every 5 years or so.. and clean it out in there.. (perhaps replace bolts with new ones.. )<br /><br />Thats my suggestion anyway.. now for my question..<br /><br />Since I have the cover off anyway.. would it be acceptable to drill and thread the cover so that I can stick the temp sensor directly into the water jacket??? There is plenty of room in there. and it would not obstuct the flow very much..<br /><br />Just figured that that would be more accurate then the Z bracket on the head. (external but in hard contact with the head..)<br /><br />If its a bad idea, let me know so I don't do something stupid. :) <br /><br />Hope this post is of some use to someone...<br /><br />I am gonna pull the other banks cover off before I go out next... even though I do not need to get any bolts out.. if it is as obstucted as the left bank was.. it will only be amatter of time before the engine would cook...<br /><br />Hope like hell I can get those bolts out..<br /><br />I spent hours cleaning up the head face and bolt threads with a wire brush.. followed by ovencleaner. (got rid of the corrosion really well, but I didn't leave it on for long.. <br /><br />followed by metholated spirits (its a very thin liquid and gets in anywhere..)<br /><br />follows by alot of scrubbing.. the broken bolt shafts look like new now.. so all the cr@p is off them.. <br /><br />Tomorrow I will give then a good solid bang each with a hammer and centerpunch.. and see if they loosen up.. <br /><br />If not I will drill them and try to use an ezyout.<br /><br />Anyone have any other suggestions?? <br /><br />I have a tiny propane torch, and was thinking of trying alittle heat as well... but I do not want to make matters worse...<br /><br />regards<br /><br />Franki
 

alcan

Commander
Joined
Dec 14, 2001
Messages
2,505
Re: Water Jacket corrosion, a tip and a couple of questions.

Hi Franki<br /> I'll admit to preaching maintainence. But some times we can get a little carried away. In my opion the mission you have undertaken is a waste of time. You can go to all this trouble and in two weeks be right back in the same shape maybe worse. I find that most of the time this problem only goes so far. Your motor is a 1972 model. This build up has only growen this much in that amount of time. If you keep the motor that amount of time longer the build-up won't be twice. Unless you have a leak,unexplained overheat or some knowen reason to mess with this, don't.
 

dmessy

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 8, 2001
Messages
505
Re: Water Jacket corrosion, a tip and a couple of questions.

Been there ,done that Frank... yeah, those bolts are cold fused to the block, chances are you won't be able to get them out. Do the penetrating oil trick and if you have a stub letf where you can grasp them with vice grips you can get more touque on them. If they snap off flush , oh well, nothing lost :rolleyes: <br />last resort is an easy out. Use the largest one possible. If it breaks off in the hole you may be royally scr*wed. try LIGHT heat but remember , this is aluminum so you may get it out but the threads would be ruined. Personally, if the above didn't work, I'd grind the bolts off flush being careful not to get into the sealing surface and accurately drill the bolts out and retapp them. Good uck in your project, its a bear...
 

Franki

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Feb 16, 2002
Messages
1,059
Re: Water Jacket corrosion, a tip and a couple of questions.

Tell me about it.. I have been here before..<br /><br />One of the reasons I want to do both sides is because all the bolts are locked solid...<br /><br />I may have cause to get them out for one reason or another. (like a blockage). and the fact that I can't get them out without breaking annoys me..<br /><br />Also.. I'd feel better knowning its clean..<br /><br />Its not totally necessary because I will have a temp sensor on both banks..<br /><br />(lower cyl on one bank and upper on the other so I can detect heat changes caused by carb problems. (since one carb does the upper cyl's and the other does the lower.))<br /><br />But it annoys me..... :) <br /><br />I toyed with the idea of of blocking off the water outlets and filling the water channels with one of those auto radiator coolants that disolves corrosion...<br /><br />But I still don't want bolts on the mother that I can't undo if I want to.. its just not right.. :)<br /><br />You'd think I'd have learned my lesson when I had to take the tilt rams out.. about 15 hours of hard labour before I got them..<br /><br />The outboard is otherwise perfect.. so I'll see how I go tomorrow with this one side before I make a decision on the other.. (I might get lucky and not have a problem getting them out..)<br /><br />Does anyone have any comment about drilling and taping holes in the water covers so I can directly bolt in the temp sensors??? is it worth the effort ? or is the teleflex idea of the Z bracket good enough???<br /><br />Alcan, this motor is 30 years old.. but at least 15 of them were spent in a shed filled with oil... so apparently 15 years does the trick. :)<br /><br />rgds<br /><br />Franki
 

dmessy

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 8, 2001
Messages
505
Re: Water Jacket corrosion, a tip and a couple of questions.

No prob. drilling/tapping covers,just makr sure the metal is thick enough to get good thread purchase(1/4" at least). Might want to explore the block itself for a place to put it also. It'll be a tricky , one shot deal so check carefully before drilling. Sensing the water at the heat source will be the most accurate,
 

Franki

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Feb 16, 2002
Messages
1,059
Re: Water Jacket corrosion, a tip and a couple of questions.

Yeah, If I have a tap here with the right thread, I might give it a go..<br /><br />I have a spare motor here.. its a 69 85HP rude, but mostly the same engine.. so if I clag it.. I can always rip the cover off that one. (although in doing so, I'll probably have to snap off all those bolts as well. :)<br /><br />Incidently.. I just got one of the bolts out using just a pair of multigrips and a hammer. (banged the bold hard a couple of times.).. it was hard.. the bolts are small, but I got one out.. only took about 10 minutes...<br /><br />I have settled on a plan for the others..<br /><br />I have about 8mm of the bolts shanks sticking out of the head.. I will drill them, (small as possible) and put in the smallest easyout I have.<br /><br />Then I will go and buy a brand new pair of vicegrips, and put them as hard as I can around the bolt shank, then turn the easyout and the vicegrips at the same time..<br /><br />Hopefully that will do the trick.. The bottom bolts will be the hardest, because they are in the motor housing and harder to get at.<br /><br />wish me luck..<br /><br />rgds<br /><br />Franki
 

Paul Moir

Admiral
Joined
Nov 5, 2002
Messages
6,847
Re: Water Jacket corrosion, a tip and a couple of questions.

If you drill for an easyout, you'll probably just crush & snap off the ~8mm of the bolt showing when you put your vicegrips on them. Like dmessy said, go with the ezout last. Personally, I've regreted every time I reached for them. My best sucesses have all involved heat, oil and cooling. Heat I get *carefully* from a propylene torch (I think you can use a regular propane torch w/ propylene bottles), and cooling I get from the vicegrips clamping the stud after the area's been heated. Heating a hole does increase it's diameter, despite what some people have said on this board.
 

dmessy

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 8, 2001
Messages
505
Re: Water Jacket corrosion, a tip and a couple of questions.

Aother trick to try b4 the easyout is to hacksaw a groove in the remaining bolt stub and go at it with a hand held impact tool and blade screwdriver. The impactor will either break it loose or twist open the groove.
 

BillP

Captain
Joined
Aug 10, 2002
Messages
3,290
Re: Water Jacket corrosion, a tip and a couple of questions.

I usually try a few cycles of heat & cool before doing the easy outs. I also use ice cubes and on bigger parts those bags you freeze. Heat one part and put ice on the other. I use a heat gun instead of torch because you can easily puddle the aluminum with a torch. It can be done with the torch but watch it carefully.
 

ODDD1

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Jan 23, 2001
Messages
1,054
Re: Water Jacket corrosion, a tip and a couple of questions.

Frank, that blue flame wrench can be a lot like alcohol..in proper doses it does alot of good...I have always found the most important thing in this situation is PATIENCE....from here on out bad things can really start to stack into a pile of trouble thats hard to see over....the hardest part for me is after you get that little stub moving back and forth, not to rush it.....take all but two fingers off the wrench and take your time....cause after you get that stub out 2 turns and you snap it off AGAIN...well welcome to wrenchbender's Hell...
 

93bronco

Ensign
Joined
Nov 11, 2001
Messages
962
Re: Water Jacket corrosion, a tip and a couple of questions.

stay away from the easy outs!!!! if you want to keep what you got.<br />get a reverse drill bit try that.
 

Franki

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Feb 16, 2002
Messages
1,059
Re: Water Jacket corrosion, a tip and a couple of questions.

Hi guys, <br /><br />Bad news... The head is now trashed. (I think)<br /><br />I had 14 snapped bolts.. and i had been working for an hour or so.. and I had gotten 5 of them out (using multigrips and a hammer) and had two that needed drilling... <br /><br />So anyway, I decided I needed a new pair of multigrips with teeth that were not worn rounded. and my mate stated he could drill the other two while I was away... <br /><br />Unfortunatly he drilled one of them right through into the combustion chamber. (its the port head).. so I think that head is toast... (is it? can it be saved somehow without pulling it off?)<br /><br />Anyway, I am now going under the assumption that the head is clagged. and i am going to pull it off..<br /><br />I have a 69 evinrude 85HP here that I bought for spare parts.. and it has the head number: 314965<br /><br />It looks identical externally, but I do not know if the combustion chamber is the same.. <br />If it is.. I will put these heads on and get back on the water..<br /><br />Unfortunatly, I can't find the part number breakdown for the 100ESL72 johnson I have so I don't know if the port head has the same number. (I doubt it, but its possible..)<br /><br />Anyone know what I should do here?? (apart from shooting my mate of course :)<br /><br />regards<br /><br />Franki
 
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