water softner vs water filter

[sublauxation]

Hope you guys don't mind all my questions but after 4 years here I've seen that you guys are smarter and more trustworthy than everybody else out there.

I think my WaterBoss softener is on it's way out of this world. I've done a lot of research and am not sure I like the idea of a softener anyways. I'm on city water but it's pretty hard stuff, sometimes I'd swear it's crunchy.

I've been looking at water filters for some time and keep coming across this whole house Whirlpool filter: Shop Whirlpool Whole House Water Filtration System at Lowes.com

When I look on the Whirlpool website they recommend it in addition to a softener, but when I read the reviews it sounds like most use it in place of one. Anybody use one of these or any other filter in place of a softener?

 

[JB]

Re: water softner vs water filter

No filter can replace a softener. Filters remove solids, softeners remove dissolved chemicals, most commonly iron, by ion exchange.

If you get silt in your water, use a filter. If the water is chemically "hard", use a softener.

 

[tazrig]

Re: water softner vs water filter

I run into this problem all the time in my wholesale coffee business. JB is correct. Filters only remove solids. If your water is hard then you need a softener.

 

[minuteman62-64]

Re: water softner vs water filter

Actually, most filters for home water supply use contain activated carbon - which will absorb chlorine and some organic constituents. However, as noted above, they won't reduce hardness.

RE: a whole house filtration system - do you really want/need to filter the water you use for showering/laundry/dishwashing?

 

[atika]

Re: water softner vs water filter

yes, water filters use activated carbons to remove all the "bad things"... softener cant replace a filter.. those are two completely different things..

 

[Georgesalmon]

Re: water softner vs water filter

If the water is hard as you say the info above is all correct you need a softener to handle that. I don't like the taste of "soft" water and it might just be its all in my head. I have a whole house softener and also have activated charcoal filters at the kitchen sink and in the fridge for coffee and drinking water. To me thats the best of both worlds.

 

[oldjeep]

Re: water softner vs water filter

If the water is hard as you say the info above is all correct you need a softener to handle that. I don't like the taste of "soft" water and it might just be its all in my head. I have a whole house softener and also have activated charcoal filters at the kitchen sink and in the fridge for coffee and drinking water. To me thats the best of both worlds.

The lines to our fridge and icemakers bypass the softener for that same reason. Out at the lake place we've got multiple water filtration/softening steps. There are a pair of paper filters to get the sand and crap out of the water first (sandpoint well), then it goes through an ecowater iron filter and then it goes through the softener.

 

[salty87]

Re: water softner vs water filter

RE: a whole house filtration system - do you really want/need to filter the water you use for showering/laundry/dishwashing?

running deposit heavy water through your machines and spray heads will gunk them up. i have family on well water with a water softener and their dishwasher only lasts about 5 years before going bad. their nice washing machine looks 3 times older than it really is.

 

[JB]

Re: water softner vs water filter

Well, I was wrong above. Some "filters" do more than filter. Activated carbon can adsorb (remove) some unpleasant components of water, but only until saturated. Then the filter cartridge needs replacement.

The resins in water softeners do the same for iron, but replace themselves by backflushing with brine (salt). "Softened" water is great for washing and preventing ugly stains on laundry and plumbing, "filtered" water great for preventing nasty taste and odor for drinking and cooking.

Of course, the benefits of both or either assume that your water is pretty nasty to start with. Water in some locations, like the NC Sandhills and some artesian wells, does not benefit from either because the "nasties" aren't in it to start with.

 

[sublauxation]

Re: water softner vs water filter

If the water is hard as you say the info above is all correct you need a softener to handle that. I don't like the taste of "soft" water and it might just be its all in my head. I have a whole house softener and also have activated charcoal filters at the kitchen sink and in the fridge for coffee and drinking water. To me thats the best of both worlds.

That's what I've got now. I've softened everything but the water going to the outside spigot. The city says our hardness is 18 which they describe as "extremely hard" by city water standards.

From what I read softeners take out Calcium and Magnesium. With an additive (which I use) they also take out iron. When I replace the filters of my under sink filter (softened water tastes terrible to me too) the first two stages have enough red stuff in them (I'm assuming iron) that I could probably build a boat with it after a couple months.

This makes me wonder... if my softener, which was working, misses that much iron why not just put in a whole house filter and skip the salting process. Then again, sometimes I wonder too much.

 

[rbh]

Re: water softner vs water filter

Some softners have a built in fine mesh/high kinetic resin that catches the ferrous (clear water) iron and the ferric (red water) iron.

Some softners do not have this ability.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: water softner vs water filter

......This makes me wonder... if my softener, which was working, misses that much iron why not just put in a whole house filter and skip the salting process. Then again, sometimes I wonder too much......

Trying to determine a proper treatment without an accurate water analysis is like shooting at a target in complete darkness. A properly regenerated water softener will remove, to near zero, all 'hardness' and all clearwater, disolved iron. Many wells have both dissolved iron and particulate iron. For the most part, particle iron being inert, will pass right through the round, uniform resin beads which were never designed to be a physical filtering media.

Even then, all particulate iron (rust, ferric, etc) is not created equal. It really depends on the particle size. Some particulate iron could be in the colloidal state. That means that the particles are so small they will stay suspended in a column of water and pass thru any micron rated filter that you could apply to whole house water volumes and flows. Many 'drinking' water filters have a much smaller micron rating than you could use for the whole house.

If your well has both forms of iron, at some level you need both forms of treatment.

 

[RogersJetboat454]

Re: water softner vs water filter

That's what I've got now. I've softened everything but the water going to the outside spigot. The city says our hardness is 18 which they describe as "extremely hard" by city water standards.

From what I read softeners take out Calcium and Magnesium. With an additive (which I use) they also take out iron. When I replace the filters of my under sink filter (softened water tastes terrible to me too) the first two stages have enough red stuff in them (I'm assuming iron) that I could probably build a boat with it after a couple months.

This makes me wonder... if my softener, which was working, misses that much iron why not just put in a whole house filter and skip the salting process. Then again, sometimes I wonder too much.

If I may make a suggestion....

I bought one of these for our summer camp when we had a new well drilled last year;
AQUA-PURE Heavy Duty Housing - Filtration Systems - 3BU27|AP801-C - Grainger Industrial Supply

We were having problems with allot of iron particles (new well casing), and turbidity (stone flour from drilling bedrock). The water looked like something pulled out of a puddle. That guy up above cleaned it up.

Of course it's not going to solve hardness problems. But as you say, it sounds like you have allot of iron in your water. Installing that guy before a softener, and the sink filters will cut down on the amount of iron that goes through them. A bunch of different filters are available for it (depending on application), but most of them reasonably priced.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: water softner vs water filter

...... I've softened everything but the water going to the outside spigot.
.....

I hope you do not have to wash any cars from that spigot!:help:

 

[glenn property of pam]

Re: water softner vs water filter

i have hard water and after 5 years it jammed the ports open on the softner. the cost to buy a rebuilt head were about 25% of replacing the softner completely so i opted for a $450 delivered to the door unit (mine is a outside unit). i never realised that resin was so dam heavy which is why shipping seems high. i set the softner a little high and it was easy to notice as shampoo took for ever to rinse out. so you can either rebuild your softner or if you think that its not working try adjusting the settings as you are planning to replace it anyway.
For drinking and cooking i have a 7 stage reverse osmosis filter i change the pre-filters every 4 months then normally around the 3rd go i throw the unit away as its cheaper to buy a complete unit then to replace all the elements.

 

[sublauxation]

Re: water softner vs water filter

I hope you do not have to wash any cars from that spigot!:help:

Spigot is one of those weird words I picked up from my dad, like "sportabout" instead of SUV, if that's what you meant.:lol: If you meant I shouldn't use that water on my car, well then it gets worse, I use it to wash my boat in that case adding another outdoor faucet would be the only real cure wouldn't it? I love my plants but giving them softened water would get pretty spendy.

Thanks for all the info. I was hoping to do away with the salt and softener and all that stuff but sounds like I'm stuck with it. If my WaterBoss is dead do you have any recommendations on another brand? I've been considering adding a cheaper pre-filter in front of the softener anyways so I'll go ahead and do that just to cut out some of the Iron. Maybe it would be a good idea to do that then have the water tested to determine exact settings for the softener.

@Glenn, I actually took the RO portion off my undersink filter and just kept the 3 main cartridges. I don't always agree with the World Health Organization but they and others make some interesting points. Maybe I just read too much.

http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/dwq/nutdemineralized.pdf

 

[aspeck]

Re: water softner vs water filter

We have a pretty awesome "Culligan Man" who will do a water analysis and sell you what you need, not oversizing or overspending. He has been very trustworthy, reliable, and a huge help. He sold me an ultraviolet purification system for our work in Ghana at cost and has been gathering replacement parts, bulbs, ballasts, etc. for us at next to nothing. If you can find someone in the water business like that who will custom design a system you need and won't rake you over the coals, I would recommend going that route. Then you know you will have EXACTLY what you need.

 

[glenn property of pam]

Re: water softner vs water filter

@Glenn, I actually took the RO portion off my undersink filter and just kept the 3 main cartridges. I don't always agree with the World Health Organization but they and others make some interesting points. Maybe I just read too much.

http://www.who.int/water_sanitation_health/dwq/nutdemineralized.pdf

i have to agree with the report as i know most of the facts mentioned are true especially how the water attacks metal pipes. I installed mine mainly for the salt water fish tank as something in the water was upsetting the coral and it makes nice ice cubes.

 

[NYBo]

Re: water softner vs water filter

I have that exact Whirlpool filter. I installed it about 3 years ago after I got tired of years of replacing disposable filters at around $11 a pop. It works great taking out the sulfur and particulates. But my water is also hard (21), so I have a softener immediately downstream of the filter. This gives me very good water.

 

[sublauxation]

Re: water softner vs water filter

I have that exact Whirlpool filter. I installed it about 3 years ago after I got tired of years of replacing disposable filters at around $11 a pop. It works great taking out the sulfur and particulates. But my water is also hard (21), so I have a softener immediately downstream of the filter. This gives me very good water.

Did you try the water with just the filter first?