water temp gauge not showing temp -- fixed!

garycinn

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Oct 7, 2003
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Took my 2005 first voyage yesterday. The water temp gauge was not showing any temp. <br /><br />Water temp was 56F. I have an 160F stat -- original stat.<br /><br />Since I do my own maint, first thing I did was shut it down and pull the stat to make sure I didn't forget the gasket with the rivets or put the stat in upside down.<br /><br />Everything looked good. Put it back together and started it back up. I had my IR temp gage and I started reading temps. On the block adjacent to the tstat housing was 140F. The tstat housing was 80F. The one piece Merc risers were 95 to 115F depending on where I took the measurements. Oil filter temp was 180 to 190F.<br /><br />I took it on a 60 second run and rechecked temps -- same. Took it on longer and longer runs and checked temps again -- same temps. At the end of a few minute 3000 rpm run the water temp gage on the dash quickly climbed to 160-170F at idle. After a minute at idle, I gave it throttle and the gage shot back down to < 100F. Another time, the gauge started to climb during a run, it got to about 120F, and then went down to <100F -- the lowest on the gage. That is all I saw on the gage that day. Put about 30 minutes on the engine puttering around.<br /><br />I wiggled wires around the temp sender and alarm temp sender on the stat housing, but if the stat housing is 80F, I doubt it is an electrical problem of the gage or senders.<br /><br />Maintenance: last changed Alpha 1 Gen II impeller in the fall of 2004; 175 total fresh water hours on engine/boat; original tstat -- Merc 160F. Other than regular meticulous DIY maintenance with Merc manuals, everything else on boat is original.<br /><br />First thing I am going to do is get a new tstat. I know I shouldn't just throw parts at it, but the old one is a little rusty and I figure I could use one sooner or later.<br /><br />Where should I go from here? Am I missing anything from a procedural or troubleshooting standpoint?<br /><br />Thanks for your help.
 

Bondo

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Re: water temp gauge not showing temp -- fixed!

Sounds like your sender ground Might be spotty.....<br /><br />Disconnect the wire from the sender,+ Ground it Out,.... Does the Gauge Peg out ??? It Should....<br /><br />Other than that, it sounds like you're headed the Right Way.........
 

Don S

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Re: water temp gauge not showing temp -- fixed!

Other than regular meticulous DIY maintenance with Merc manuals, everything else on boat is original.<br />
Since you have the Merc manuals, section 4D gives you every detail needed to test your system and find the problem.
 

garycinn

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Re: water temp gauge not showing temp -- fixed!

Thanks, guys. I'll check grounding the sensor and scouring section 4D. I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something obvious. I also wanted to mention that the plastic insert in the housing was in correctly. <br /><br />I'll post back with what I find out.
 

waterone1@aol.com

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Re: water temp gauge not showing temp -- fixed!

Gary, sounds like you are going in the right direction. By the way, where did you take your 2005 maiden voyage ? The river still looked like a disaster area (floating logs, etc.)
 

garycinn

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Re: water temp gauge not showing temp -- fixed!

Originally posted by waterone1:<br /> Gary, sounds like you are going in the right direction. By the way, where did you take your 2005 maiden voyage ? The river still looked like a disaster area (floating logs, etc.)
Caesar's Creek. It was a mudhole. I had a 2" band of brown around the waterline when I pulled it out. I'm going to wait until it clears up before I go boarding/skiing. The thought of a sinus flush with that brown stuff grosses me out :rolleyes: :D .
 

garycinn

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Re: water temp gauge not showing temp -- fixed!

Brought the boat back from storage after work. Grounded the water temp sender and it pegged to full on the gauge. Replaced the tstat with a new Merc one for grins.<br /><br />Fired it up and same symptoms.<br /><br />I let it sit for a few minutes. When I turned on the ignition the heat soak from the engine must have opened up the stat and the gauge read normal operating temp. When I fired it up again the gauge went back to zero.<br /><br />I am then looking in the engine compartment taking temps and notice that there is water movement in the bilge. I traced it to the origin -- at least as far as I could see. There is a pee stream volume of water dribbling over the top of the Y pipe in the back of the engine.<br /><br />This matches my symptom of the water in the block not getting hot enough to register on the gauge. It is like I have an open stat.<br /><br />Please don't tell me I have a cracked block. I winterized it very carefully -- removing all 7 blue plugs, filling with 50/50 P/G AF thru the stat housing.<br /><br />Where is this water stream possibly coming from? I pulled the outdrive in the fall for winterization to check alignment, replace impeller, etc. Is there something that I possibly messed up on the back end?<br /><br />Please help. This is VERY depressing.<br /><br />Thanks!
 

Northern Eclipse

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Re: water temp gauge not showing temp -- fixed!

Did you drain and fill the exhaust manifolds and the power steering cooler also?
 

tommays

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Re: water temp gauge not showing temp -- fixed!

only you and a good flashlight are going to find the water leak theres so many hoses and connections it could be something small like a hose clamp or hose<br /><br />i dont see how the "pee" leak which is a bad thing is keeping the motor from warming up ?<br /><br /><br />tommays
 

garycinn

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Re: water temp gauge not showing temp -- fixed!

Yes, drained all 7 items (2 block, 2 manifolds, PS, fuel cooler, & water pump) and refilled with AF. <br /><br />Tommays, that's what I plan on doing tonight. I already have the engine partitions out so I "get one" with my engine and find the leak. I ran out of daylight last night.<br /><br />Thanks for your help.<br /><br />I'll report back with my findings.
 

Bondo

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Re: water temp gauge not showing temp -- fixed!

I let it sit for a few minutes. When I turned on the ignition the heat soak from the engine must have opened up the stat and the gauge read normal operating temp. When I fired it up again the gauge went back to zero. <br />
Does the Dash(Temp Gauge) have Full 12 volts when the motor is running ??? Just Guessing here......<br />Are you getting Good Ground thru the brass rivit in the T-stat gasket ???<br />
There is a pee stream volume of water dribbling over the top of the Y pipe in the back of the engine.
Power Steering Cooler.?? Maybe.......<br /><br />You're going to have to crawl down in there,+ See.........
 

garycinn

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Re: water temp gauge not showing temp -- fixed!

I fired it up again. The water was coming from the drive shaft bellows -- hence running down the transom and over the y pipe.<br /><br />I looked at the PS cooler and it was dry. It was definitely coming from the transom.<br /><br />I shut it down and pulled the outdrive. The water passage o-ring was crimped and the drive shaft gasket was all torn up. I don't know how I could have done such a poor job putting it together in the fall. I think just trying to coordinate shift shoe, u-joints, etc. The drive shaft bellows was fine in the fall and the boat ran great last season.<br /><br />So, it turns out some water was taking the path of least resistance and coming in thru the drive shaft bellow. I was getting flow thru the exhaust and idle ports.<br /><br />Here are some questions:<br /><br />Do I need to replace my gimbal bearing just because it got wet? If not, how do I get moisture out of it? I believe it has only been wet one week -- since I ran it last week. When I reach in and turn the gimbal bearing by hand I can feel each notch in the bearing. Should it turn smooth w/o a slight bump at each bearing? I don't mind replacing it, but I don't want to replace it needlessly either.<br /><br />My other question is, how does this water situation affect my engine operating temperature? I would think that reduced water pressure would increase temperature, not reduce it. I'm fairly confident that the water passage o-ring and water temperature / gauge are related, I just don't fully understand how.<br /><br />Thanks for the help again. I really appreciate it.<br /><br />Gary
 

garycinn

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Re: water temp gauge not showing temp -- fixed!

Originally posted by Bondo:<br /> Does the Dash(Temp Gauge) have Full 12 volts when the motor is running ??? Just Guessing here......<br />Are you getting Good Ground thru the brass rivit in the T-stat gasket ???<br />
Bondo, I didn't check the dash temp gauge voltage. I am thinking it is good since it will peg all the way when I ground the sender. I believe I am getting a good ground since I used a new gasket with rivets, cleaned the surfaces, and torqued it down properly.
 

waterone1@aol.com

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Re: water temp gauge not showing temp -- fixed!

Gary, the safe bet would be to replace the gimbal bearing while you have the drive off. I think you have two seperate problems (the water intrusion and the temp issue). By the way, if you have an ohm meter, you could remove the temp sender from the housing and heat it and watch the resistance to make sure that it gradually decreases as the temp rises. If it is erratic, or goes from one extreme to the next, the sender is bad.
 

garycinn

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Re: water temp gauge not showing temp -- fixed!

Waterone1,<br /><br />I will probably replace the gimbal bearing. It may be in my head, but I think it is noisy as well. The true test will be to feel a new bearing at the parts counter. I have a Merc parts shop by me that not only sells the bearing, but will rent the puller and driver.<br /><br />When I get the drive on properly (along with bearing), I will test the sender as you describe. The Merc manual gives the ohm measurements for each heat range.<br /><br />I would like to get this done tomorrow so I can get out on the water on Sat.<br /><br />Thanks for the help.
 

waterone1@aol.com

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Re: water temp gauge not showing temp -- fixed!

Gary, keep us posted. I'm in the fairfield area, if there is anything I can help with, email me. (this is not a solicitation for business or an offer to charge for help....just one local boater offering to help another)
 

garycinn

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Re: water temp gauge not showing temp -- fixed!

WW,<br /><br />Thanks for the generous offer. You can remove your email address now.<br /><br />Thanks again,<br /><br />Gary
 

garycinn

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Re: water temp gauge not showing temp -- fixed!

I did the stove top test with the sender. It is bad. The ohms go up very slowly as the temp goes up. Once it freed up and reported close to the right ohm reading.<br /><br />My parts man says the gimbal should be smooth as a babies butt. I'll replace these two parts and reassemble with a new gasket set and report back.<br /><br />Thanks again!
 

garycinn

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Re: water temp gauge not showing temp -- fixed!

What an absolute pain to remove that gimbal bearing. The hammer slide I rented from the marine parts store had to have been a two pounder or so. I worked with that for an hour or two until my arms ached. I then went to autozone and they loaned me a 10 pounder. Still couldn't get it out after another 45 minutes. The most I ever got it to budge was about 1/8". Called www.mercstuff.com ready to order their +$200 threaded puller and he mentioned to me "are you having someone else hold the T end of the slide puller while you hammer it?" No, let me try that. I had my wife pull the end while I hammered and it was out in 10 strokes!<br /><br />It looks like I was loosing a lot of punch by trying to do both. What an PITA (not the animal lovers either).<br /><br />Now I think I'm home free. I just have to get it aligned. Fat chance. The alignment bar won't even start with the new gimbal pounded in all the way with the rented tool. I run up and down the front motor mounts trying to get in the ballpark. <br /><br />Go out to dinner with the family and come back and try some more. No go.<br /><br />I'll sleep on it and try to get it aligned tomorrow morning. Grrrrr.
 

rodbolt

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Sep 1, 2003
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Re: water temp gauge not showing temp -- fixed!

hello<br /> now that you have disturbed the mounts the fun starts. if you noticed the actual bearing can swivel in the tolerance ring carrier. sometimes you have to use the alignment bar to walk the bearing around some to get the tool started in the coupler. usually if the drive slips off easily the alignment is very close. so when installing the new bearing it will still be close. a small trick they failed to place in the manual sometimes. if your ujoints have grease fittings try to purge them. if any water comes out replace them. try to place the motor back as close as you can to where it was when you started. then hike up and down and side to side while applying a light pressure inwards on the tool.
 
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