Wax the bottom?

[Boobie Trap]

Re: Wax the bottom?

wax adversely affects speed, too. Spend your time topside

Vice Admiral,
Can you expound on the above statement? Seems contrary to all that I have ever heard.
The smoother the surface, the less coefficient of drag, the fast the speed. It may be unmeasurable but still.....
Also any protection on the bottom is just that a little more protection. Won't last long in the water for sure but still.....
A lift would help tremendously. A bottom job I would think would provide the protection from blistering of the hull.
Just my $.02 worth.....
There are some very innovative lifts on the market. An old boat trailer with long tanks could be built if balanced and you're handy.

 

[Boobie Trap]

Re: Wax the bottom?

Just an FYI,
I was reading some boating magazine the other week and there was an article about bottom paints.
I new one is out, can't remember the name, but it is slick and cost about $800 a gallon.
The carrot on the end of the stick is that at 16 mph, the water pressure cleans the bottom and algae is removed.
Does it work? Don't have a clue but at those prices, I would be getting a written guarantee.

I am in fresh lake water and a bottom job last about 5 years. I do an annual haul out to change outdrive oil and pressure wash the bottom.

Another $.02 worth......

 

[sasto]

Re: Wax the bottom?

I clean bottoms of painted boats frequently. I have yet to see a bottom paint keep alge or other marine life from growing on the bottom. Especially at the waterline. Ablative paint on a boat that sits in still waters will have growth, till you take her for a ride. And then the waterline doesn't get the flow desired to keep her clean.

In my opinion....If you are only have to clean her occasionally. Don't paint the bottom. It may not be worth your time and money. Bottom paint alone will not stop blistering, but as has been said.......use an epoxy barrier.

Good Luck!

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Wax the bottom?

... Bottom paint alone will not stop blistering, but as has been said.......use an epoxy barrier.

Good Luck!

That's what you need to pay special heed to gazelle.

 

[lakegeorge]

Re: Wax the bottom?

If your in fresh water use a hard bottom paint, like Interlux. Fiberglass will absorb water, bottom paint will help stop this, wax won't as it doesn't last that long under water. Paint, Paint, Paint.

 

[cyclops2]

Re: Wax the bottom?

Tilliam

When is my Mercruiser 5 L V8 going to break ?
I put it in on May 15 & take it out September 15. It has St. Lawrence green hair 3" long. I run the daylights out of that 2002 Chap. You are are not convincing people that do 50 mph for HOURS a week.
10 years old & it barks to life & goes.

Screw the slime down there. Enjoy your boat like MILLIONS of others do all the time with no problems.

 

[cyclops2]

Re: Wax the bottom?

Fiberglass cloth soaking in water will absorb water between the weaving.

Gell coated fibreglass cloth will not absorb water. How many boats in any marina are getting new fibreglass bottoms every 3 years that have any epoxy & gellcoat over the cloth ?

Have not seen or heard of 1 in our boating area.

All those 5..10 & 20 year old boats have new painted fresh water bottoms ? No.

 

[haybay larry]

Re: Wax the bottom?

Forget waxing the bottom. On a fiberglass hull the best method of prtecting it is to lay on an epoxy barrier first followed by a separate coat of material["a tie coat"] to allow the anti-fouling paint to adhere to the epoxy finish. It will take some time but the results will be worth it. I have been through it before with excellent results.
I should say that if you have ANY blisters on the bare hull you MUST open them up first and allow them to completely dry before you apply the epoxy coat.
Before you launch the boat in future years you can touch up the bottom as necessary. You can get at the trailer bunk areas if you have a boat yard use a "sling" type of lift to support the boat and paint the appropriate areas.

 

[Philster]

Re: Wax the bottom?

Vice Admiral,
Can you expound on the above statement? Seems contrary to all that I have ever heard.
The smoother the surface, the less coefficient of drag, the fast the speed. It may be unmeasurable but still.....
Also any protection on the bottom is just that a little more protection. Won't last long in the water for sure but still.....
A lift would help tremendously. A bottom job I would think would provide the protection from blistering of the hull.
Just my $.02 worth.....
There are some very innovative lifts on the market. An old boat trailer with long tanks could be built if balanced and you're handy.

It is long held to be true that waxed bottoms rob about 1-3% off top speed, which can really add up on very, very high-performance boats in race scenarios. It has to do with how water flows past and/or provides lift.

When you don't wax, the trade off is a bit more lift with ever-so-slightly more friction, which results in a net gain. The rougher, non-waxed surface on the bottom has a touch more lift. For a planning hull, getting less wetted surface is better than slightly more wetted surface that is slightly slicker (waxed bottom).

Waxed bottom: wee bit less friction + touch more wetted surface

loses to

No Wax: touch more friction + more lift = less wetted hull

Lift and less wetted hull for the win

 

[Philster]

Re: Wax the bottom?

Tilliam

When is my Mercruiser 5 L V8 going to break ?
I put it in on May 15 & take it out September 15. It has St. Lawrence green hair 3" long. I run the daylights out of that 2002 Chap. You are are not convincing people that do 50 mph for HOURS a week.
10 years old & it barks to life & goes.

Screw the slime down there. Enjoy your boat like MILLIONS of others do all the time with no problems.

Well, the fact of the matter is that it is possible to have enough growth on a boat to hinder performance so significantly that the engine fails to reach its max operating RPM range recommended by the manufacturer. I think we are to the point here that this is an accepted fact.

This can lug an engine enough that it contributes to engine damage. The operator plays a role, too.

There are a number of variables and assorted conditions, types of use, engine designs, and other factors to consider. Does it guarantee engine failure? No. Does it increase the risk? Yes.

It's like overpropping. It can hurt. It does hurt some to the point of outright premature wear or internal damage. Will 100% of all over propped engines suffer internal damage? No. Are they increasing the likelihood? Again: Yes.

Same deal for growth. If it is so bad that it lugs the engine, you run all the risks associated with engine lugging. Don't hold your breath waiting for anyone to endorse lugging an engine.

 

[cyclops2]

Re: Wax the bottom?

Anything is possible.

By the same logic. Somethings are not probable.

Give me a DEFINATE percentage of real boaters who have had engine failures from ..." possible " ... weed growth overloading.

More boat engines DEFINATELY are damaged by overloading with weight & running WOT off of plane . a 50 MPH boat with 9 people instead of 6 stands a far more possible risk of engine damage.

Fear, fear, fear. Good & bad thing of web postings, is both right & wrong have equal believability.

 

[riptorn]

Re: Wax the bottom?

It is long held to be true that waxed bottoms rob about 1-3% off top speed, which can really add up on very, very high-performance boats in race scenarios. It has to do with how water flows past and/or provides lift.

When you don't wax, the trade off is a bit more lift with ever-so-slightly more friction, which results in a net gain. The rougher, non-waxed surface on the bottom has a touch more lift. For a planning hull, getting less wetted surface is better than slightly more wetted surface that is slightly slicker (waxed bottom).

Waxed bottom: wee bit less friction + touch more wetted surface

loses to

No Wax: touch more friction + more lift = less wetted hull

Lift and less wetted hull for the win

It's nice to have my boat looking like new anyways. But no more waxing my toboggan in the winter. LOL

 

[Philster]

Re: Wax the bottom?

It's nice to have my boat looking like new anyways. But no more waxing my toboggan in the winter

If you were less smarmy and more adept at comprehension, you'd conclude that waxing the toboggan is still the way to go. But, please, let your desire to be smarmy squelch any chance to be less ignorant.

 

[Philster]

Re: Wax the bottom?

Anything is possible.

By the same logic. Somethings are not probable.

Give me a DEFINATE percentage of real boaters who have had engine failures from ..." possible " ... weed growth overloading.

More boat engines DEFINATELY are damaged by overloading with weight & running WOT off of plane . a 50 MPH boat with 9 people instead of 6 stands a far more possible risk of engine damage.

Fear, fear, fear. Good & bad thing of web postings, is both right & wrong have equal believability.

No, because the burden of proof is on you. You are positing that growth cannot put significant drag on a boat, and you are going forth and challenging accepted fact in the boating community which is that lugging an engine (from growth, wrong prop, etc) can cause internal damage.

The more ridiculous and counter to the accepted reality the claim is, then the more proof the community will require.

Growth can be so bad as to lug an engine. Lugging an engine can cause internal damage (you accept this). You refuse to accept that growth can put significant drag on a boat. Good luck with that.

You realize there are different types and amounts of growth -- right? All affect performance to various degrees; some not so much as to even matter.

 

[sasto]

Re: Wax the bottom?

I'm by far no expert on "lugging" an engine. But, I'm failing to get the concept. For example I have an old fishing boat that is a pig in the water. She is a Penn Yan...not known to be efficient. A friend has an aluminium boat with the same power, an inboard 318, and is much more efficient and faster. My boat needs much more power and burns twice as much fuel. It's been almost 40 years and over 2000 hours without a single major breakdown.


What does a little slime...as the op states, on the bottom have to do with lugging? I would think my inefficient hull design would have killed this motor a long time ago.


Just wondering!

 

[cyclops2]

Re: Wax the bottom?

Mercruiser has hundreds of thousands of damaged engines every year in new boats.

Best kept secret in the bussiness. Even my close Mercruiser marina owner friend has never told me about all those damaged engines every year. I will copy your posting and demand that he tell me the untold truth about weed growth in average use boats.

Then again. " See that boat over there ? The pier goes out cruising more than the boat does. "
That boat CONSTANTLY tied up for years in the water COULD break down. More likely from all the weed strands instantly sucked into the water intakes than actual weed drag during a cruise. The engines are not circulating water.

We have a few pier "Queens & Kings ". Most never start the main engine because of weeds growing right across the grated intakes. They operate on shore power only. They are towed to the crane & cleaned first before ever starting the engines.

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: Wax the bottom?

Sasto, as long as the engine is propped to hit its MAX WOT rpm, then you are not damaging it. IF growth or any other factor causes the engine to not hit its MAX WOT rpm, lugging can/does occur and can lead to damage, especially on Vortec GM small blocks. Fact. You and cyclops can argue against fact and science all you want. You'll still be wrong.

Yes the OP states they don't have severe growth. I was just cautioning them on the dangers of that growth, if they don't keep it clean.

As far as blisters, gelcoat ABSORBS water. Another scientifically proven fact. However, gelcoat with EPOXY resin does not. And that is why for bottom paint to protect against blisters, it must have an epoxy barrier coat laid down first. Unless of course their boat was laid down with epoxy resin from the factory. But not all boats are.

But hey, you guys enjoy your boats the way you want.

 

[Navigator_Victory]

Re: Wax the bottom?

Bottom Paint.....mine was in water 8 months pulled it out and it had no algae on it

 

[sasto]

Re: Wax the bottom?

Sasto, You and cyclops can argue against fact and science all you want. You'll still be wrong.

I see nothing in my post whareas I'm in disagreement. I stated I know nothing about lugging. I don't get the concept, and gave an example of two different vessels with the same power. I'm learning here and would like more info on this topic. I like facts.

I still don't get where a little slime in going to destroy the OP's engine. Clue me in.....I'm all ears!

 

[haulnazz15]

Re: Wax the bottom?

. . . you'd conclude that waxing the toboggan is still the way to go.

Lol. Seems like someone needs to find a better looking First Mate.