Weird issue with adjusting idle stop screw, idle timing, etc...

rusirius

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Ok after looking I think I might have been being a bonehead. If I swap the motors as a whole, is it easy to just swap the trim/tilt motor over to the new old motor? Just a rough look it looks like it would be possible?
 

flyingscott

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If your newer motor has the fast-trac system which I believe it does I believe you have to change the whole transom bracket assembly
 

rusirius

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Ugh. How difficult is it to swap the transom bracket? That's what I was thinking about doing anyway, but then was hoping I could just put this tt unit in the other one cause it looked like it kinda would.

On the original motor issue, I pulled the head again tonight just to have a look. Remember I cleaned it all up before putting it together last time. It's pretty obvious that cylinder isn't firing at all as you can see from this pic. I think if I could just figure this out I'd be fine and not even have to worry about the other motor.

It's definitely getting fuel cause the cylinder it's wet and there's fuel/oil coating the walls. It also explains why when the exhaust smells of unburnt gas. Which makes me think spark again, but it seems like that's fine.

I really would love to get this thing going but I'm running out of ideas. I think if I could just get this cylinder firing all would be well. Definitely getting frustrated.
 

rusirius

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No Title

Whoops, forgot the pic
 

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oldboat1

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The '85 should have a tilt assist cylinder -- may find manually tilting easier than expected.
 

rusirius

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Well I've made some progress! I figured out why the bottom cylinder wasn't firing. in my mind I was thinking air+ fuel+ spark= go... And I had all 3 so I couldn't figure out what could possibly be wrong...

But since I had the head off anyway, I'm not sure why but I decided to crank it over a few turns and watch...

Well the problem was obvious. Cylinder 1 and 2 looked like what I would expect... Cylinder 3? It was like a gopher was inside the cylinder with a fire hose spraying fuel! Just giant plumes of fuel!

But that doesn't make any sense right? I swapped the carb from a known good cylinder...

Then I thought back to what started this whole thing.. The vro pump...

I disconnected the pulse fitting and fuel just poured out!

With it disconnect I gave the primer bulb a squeeze and fuel shot out in a solid stream.

So obviously despite it looking ok something must have blown on the seal between the air motor and fuel pump.

Hopefully that's my only problem, but I'm ditching the vro and just throwing a standard pump on there. Then we'll see
 

rusirius

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Good news bad news. After looking at the other motor I just bought I realized it had a standard pump on it. So I yanked it off and popped it on.

Started it up and gave it a moment to clear. She's definitely running better now, though I still have some things to work out. Hopefully something simple.

It starts up and idles at about 1300 rpm (fairly rough idle), then I assume the quick start is kicking out (which is odd because quick start should disable about 1100rpm I thought), but I'm pretty sure it's quick start because if I watch the timing it's sitting at about 6 degrees atdc. When it "kicks out" it drops to 4 degrees btdc. As soon as it does idle drops too about 700rpm.

But here's the weird part. When it started running it will surge back up to 1300 and the timing jumps back up to 6 btdc. Then after a few it'll drop again for a moment, stutter a little then surge back up. It's like the quick start keeps jumping in and out.

On top of that, often when it drops it will die before it surges back up. When it's getting ready to die if I crack the butterfly valves just a tad it'll keep running a bit longer.

So any idea why this might be happening? I feel like I'm definitely getting close, just not sure what could be causing this last issue
 

oldboat1

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There are a number of threads on disabling quickstart, among them: http://forums.iboats.com/forum/engi...s/10043554-issues-with-timing-i-believe-maybe

The system should operate only when engine temp is under 95F, as I understand it -- and think you might have said you checked the sensor. But if you haven't done it already, I think it would be a good move to disconnect QS and see what you have.

Based on the other posts, it looks like you could temporarily shut down QS by disconnecting the wht/blk wire from the port sensor, then grounding the power pack side of the connection -- might try that and see if the wonky rpm and/or timing issues go away. It sounds like you may also need to disconnect the power supply (yellow/red, according to the posts) to make sure the QS system is offline. (As the QS system is activated at startup by the keyswitch, it might also be possible that a bad keyswitch could cause QS issues.)
 

rusirius

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Oldboat! Thank you so much! I think you might have nailed it with the keyswitch! See last night I did unplug the temp switch (the qs side) and grounded it, but it was still acting like qs was popping in and out.

I didn't realize that it also looked for the start switch as well! I wouldn't have normally thought anything of it until I saw that, but for just about as long as I've had the boat every once in a while you turn the key and it won't engage the starter, it's just dead. A little jiggle of the wiring harness behind the key and it works fine. I never bothered to look into it because it wasn't often and never really caused a hassle.

But now I'm wondering if it's gotten worse and is somehow sending a signal to start when it shouldn't.

I've never noticed the starter try to kick in while running, but I suppose if it was just a tiny pulse it could be enough to not engage the start solenoid but does engage the quick start!

When I get home from work tonight I'll disconnect the power pack feed from the start solinoid and see if that works!
 

rusirius

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Ok so I verified again that the temp switch was grounding one warm and it was. So I tried unplugging the trigger from the start wire, still did the same thing.

So at that point I figured it had to be one of two things. Either my brand new power pack was bad out of the box, or it wasn't quick start and something else cause causing the timing to do that.

So I thought, what if when it's in what I thought was the quick start mode, that's really just the normal mode, and it's stumbling trying to die when I'm seeing the timing drop.

So I started backing the timing off even more. Just about as soon as I touched it it dropped way down and the engine died.

So I decided to use a different approach. I advanced the adjuster on the throttle cable to open the butterflies a little more. Started back up and idle was high of course.

So I started backing the timing down a bit more and eventually it did the same thing, so I advanced throttle adjustment even more, wash rinse and repeat.

I didn't have time to get it as close as I wanted. But now it's definitely getting much better and much closer. It starts up, runs about 1100 till warm, or just a couple seconds if already warm, then drops back to about 750.

It's still surging just a bit, but I think that's just cause I still haven't got the timing back to where it belongs yet. I ran out of time last night but plan on trying again tonight to get it closer, but at this point it's at last running reliably and seems to be heading in the right direction!

So in the end, I don't think it was as I was seeing, I think the idle timing was just set about 10 degrees too high, and carbs closed too much to run reliably, then when it was trying to die and cut out it just made the timing drop as the engine stumbled to stay running.
 

rusirius

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Btw, from the procedure listed in the service manual I was under the impression that it should be able to idle fine with the carbs fully closed. Rather it's because the one cylinder has lower compression, or age or whatever it looks like that's not the case. So I think I might finally have this one licked
 
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