What a ride!!!

jay_merrill

Vice Admiral
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
5,653
Re: What a ride!!!

SgtMgr, when I was in the Guard I went to "A" School at Navy Memphis (Millington, Tn) to become an aircraft mechanic and flight crewman. At the time, the USCG did not have its own schools for my rating (specialty). My rating actually included job skills that were included in two separate ratings in the Navy, plus the Guard sent us to a "C" school while we were there so I was on base for about 6 months. During that time, the "honor man" for nearly every graduating class was either a Coastie or a Marine. Just thought this might put a smile on your face!

I have always found that boaters have a good appreciation of what the Guard does, and so do a lot of EMS types who may have worked with them, but prior to Katrina many civilians have not. I would sometimes run into ex Army or Air Force folks who would say I was in a "pansy" service or that it isn't military, etc. What they don't get is that they might well rather get shot at than do some of the stuff we did. They also don't understand some of the dangers inherent in things less spectacular than crashing through the surf in an MLB.

For example, during the time that I was flying SAR, the crew of one of our airplanes somehow managed to set off a Mk45, night illumination flare inside the aircraft. The only possible explanation is that they screwed up and set the pressure altitude for the altitude they were flying at instead of the desired deployment altitude, and then managed to accidentally pull the lanyard that attaches to the firing pin. The aircraft filled with smoke, crashed and all five were killed.

I am also in awe of what the flight crews did during Katrina. As is true of any aircraft, flying a helo in a cruise mode isn't hard, even without the use of an autopilot. Flying in a hover and trying to remain in an exact position while the crewman lowers and raises a rescue basket that may be a foot or so sway from an obstruction that could entangle it, is an entirely different situation. Imagine doing that, not once or twice to rescue a couple of folks off of a boat at sea, but all day long for days, all the while dodging power lines, trees, etc. The same goes for the crewmen, both the hoist operators and the swimmers that often went down to those who were to be rescued. In my book, these guys were nothing short of amazing in their ability to stay "on the ball" in what must have been an exhausting environment.

I agree wholeheartedly with BMB's opinion that our tax dollars are well spent on the USCG!
 

JCF350

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Oct 21, 2007
Messages
1,149
Re: What a ride!!!

That tells me he wants him to do it till he gets it right. Meaning don't roll the boat next time.

Then why did the chief congratulate him on his recovery after the second rollover.
 

Drowned Rat

Captain
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Messages
3,070
Re: What a ride!!!

Never mind. It sound great to everyone but those who know better. You don't purposely cause hundreds of thousands of dollars in damage to a boat and endager the lives of those on board for training. It happens yes, but it's not intentional.
 

JCF350

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Oct 21, 2007
Messages
1,149
Re: What a ride!!!

I have always found that boaters have a good appreciation of what the Guard does, and so do a lot of EMS types who may have worked with them, but prior to Katrina many civilians have not. I would sometimes run into ex Army or Air Force folks who would say I was in a "pansy" service or that it isn't military, etc. What they don't get is that they might well rather get shot at than do some of the stuff we did. They also don't understand some of the dangers inherent in things less spectacular than crashing through the surf in an MLB.

My son was a Fire Control Tech on the Boutwell which was sent to the Persian Gulf during the invasion of Iraq. He was telling me about the "nuts" that would come up to them in small boats and on jetski's carrying RPG's. They would sit just outside of 500 meters and sit there for awhile before taking off again. Now the Boutwell is 378' long but it ain't no warship. He was telling me that he sat there with his finger on the button for the CIWS and telling the Captain he wasn't gonna wait for the order to fire if they launched the thing. Apparently they only had authorization to fire inside 500 meters or fired upon first. Which makes no sense because I believe an RPG has about twice that range. Any way their job was to keep the sea lanes open and keep an eye on the oil platforms in addition to SAR.

Not only does the Coast Guard come under Homeland Security but they are responsible to the Navy also.
 

Matt S

Seaman
Joined
Dec 26, 2006
Messages
71
Re: What a ride!!!

Yes indeed I've seen them train rolling boats on the columbia river when camping at cape disappointment. Really neat, and nerve racking, to watch. If it's not practice then I can't explain why a boat would sit broad-side to a wave when there certainly was enough time to bow in before it hit.

And when they say "made to roll" they really mean it. As in not much damage, sealed engine compartments, backup electronics etc. The USCG museum at the old "Fort Canby" now Cape Disappointment has tons of cool info on the history and current operations of the USCG. They are quite proud of this training.

Or maybe I drank too much scotch every time I camped there and watched.
 

Drowned Rat

Captain
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Messages
3,070
Re: What a ride!!!

Yes indeed I've seen them train rolling 20-40 foot boats on the columbia river when camping at cape disappointment. Really neat, and nerve racking, to watch. If it's not practice then I can't explain why a boat would sit broad-side to a wave when there certainly was enough time to bow in before it hit.

And when they say "made to roll" they really mean it. As in not much damage, sealed engine compartments, backup electronics etc. The USCG museum at the old "Fort Canby" now Cape Disappointment has tons of cool info on the history and current operations of the USCG.

What would be the point of a boat "made to roll" that it was severly disabled in a roll and unable to continue a rescue??

Or maybe I drank too much scotch every time I camped there and watched.


Obviously not someone who knows much about these boats.

"Sealed engine compartments" ??

How do your reckon the engines get air? Let me tell you, water gets in the same way air does when the boat flips. The engines lose about a gallon of oil each which in turn coats everything in the engine room. The entire engine room has to be gutted after each "rolling" episode, cleaned, and put back together. I've done this. It takes a long time. Who said it severly disabled the boat? I said they sustain lots of damage, but it in no way disables the boat. Sitting broadside to the swells is one technique for recovering men overboard. Not great for the boat, but the person in the water is less likely to be injured this way. Man overboard drills are a major focus of training at Cape D. The boat rises and falls in step with the person, making recovery easier. Rolling the boats for practice is a myth that even is passed around among Coasties themselves. Like I said, ask an MLB coxswain and he'll tell you.
 

Matt S

Seaman
Joined
Dec 26, 2006
Messages
71
Re: What a ride!!!

didn't mean to sound like an idiot (not hard to do if you know me), just reguritating what the museum guys told me and what I seen with my own 2 eyes.
 

ziggy

Admiral
Joined
Jun 30, 2004
Messages
7,473
Re: What a ride!!!

i enjoyed the footage, thanks. not much impresses me more than a boat that can take that kinda seas........ wonder if ya can buy them on the open market.......
 

jay_merrill

Vice Admiral
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
5,653
Re: What a ride!!!

JFC, I remember the Boutwell from a short period in which I was aboard a Coast Guard Cutter, before going to "A" School. I was on a "327" homeported out of Governor's Island, NY and I believe the Boutwell was homeported at Boston, MA at the time.

Your son was wise to be on his toes because, while they are great "boats," 378s were not built to be warships as a primary function. They do have armament (5" gun mount and other items) but I don't think it would take a lot to put a pretty large hole in the side of one. That said, they were very fast once the secondary engines (turbines) were kicked in, so they could reach distressed vessels quickly. I've seen published speeds of 29 knots but I believe they were significantly faster than that.

The connection to the Navy is that the Guard falls under Navy jurisdiction during times of declared war and other conflicts. When I was in the USCG, we were part of DOT and I'm sure that played a large part in the misperception that we were not a military service. LOL - I wish someone had told that to my Company Commander in boot camp, which was longer and more difficult than any service other than the Marine Corps. And, "lawd" don't you know I kept telling myself, "it could be worse, you could be a Marine" every time they woke us up at 3am to make us run while "highporting" our rifles until both our legs and arms wanted to give out!

The history of the USCG in times of war is long. In more recent times, WW2 was cetainly one in which there was significant participation. Many people in the general public probably know that the landing craft at Normandy (D-Day) were crewed by Coast Guardsmen but there was actually a great deal more participation. The "boat" that I was on in the early 70s (John C. Spencer, WHEC 36) was an escort ship for the supply convoys moving material from the States to Europe. During that time, it sunk two U-Boats (U175 & U-225). Later in the war, it was assigned to a battle group in the Pacific, where it participated in the invasions of Luzon and Palawan, in the Philippine Islands.

One of the more interesting experiences that I have had in the years since I got out of the Guard, was to take my aging father to the National D-Day Museum here in New Orleans. He jumped at Normandy the night before the invasion with the Pathfinders so, as we walked around the museum, he was giving me a narration on all of the exhibits from the standpoint of someone who was there. In the middle of this, we were standing in front of a panoramic photo of the beach during the invasion and I happened to notice a ship that looked familiar - according to the info provided about the photo, it was the Spencer! Obviously I had no connection to WW2 because I wasn't even born yet, but it was sort of an interesting connection to my own father's military history.

During my era, the Spencer and other USCG Cutters served in the waters off off South Vietnam and the Gulf of Thailand. They were part of an Operation known as "Market Time," which was very effective in denying the North Vietnamese use of the sea to transport supplies. The larger Coast Guard cutters also provided fire missions for troops ashore and emergency medical facilities for the wounded. Smaller cutters (82') engaged in interdiction of supplies aboard junks, many of which they sunk when fire fights broke out.

Obviously, I am proud of this Service because I was once a member of it, but I think that I would find it to be interesting anyway. It's really sort of an oddball in that its hard to pin down just what its role really is. From its origins in tax collection (originally known as the Revenue Cutter Service), to its role in warfare, SAR, drug interdiction, aids to navigation, homeland security and other functions, it has pretty much "done it all." And, during most of this time, it was continually underfunded because the bigger Services got more attention and had a much stronger "budget lobby." All in all, I would say that America has gotten it's money's worth out of the USCG.
 

45Auto

Commander
Joined
May 31, 2002
Messages
2,842
Re: What a ride!!!

What's the big brown stain you can see in the middle of the wave in the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th photo? :) :) :)
 

jay_merrill

Vice Admiral
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
5,653
Re: What a ride!!!

QC, I have seen that boat on Craigslist too. I think the asking price is about $140,000. The narrative says that the boat has been extensively rebuilt including, I think one new engine.
 

Drowned Rat

Captain
Joined
Jan 20, 2004
Messages
3,070
Re: What a ride!!!

That boat was the former 44346 from Monterey Bay. That was my boat from '87 to '89. I don't know why anyone would want it except maybe a salvage company. It's terribly slow and uncomfortable. The only seat above deck is the coxswain's chair. 12 knots tops with it's semi-displacement hull.

Here is a pic of it's sister ship's starboard engine. The 44342. This was my boat in Jones Beach, NY. You can see all the aluminum sheeting on the bulkheads behind which lays 1 inch of fiberglass insulation. Imagine everything you see soaked in 40W oil and salt water. The white ducting you see on the left side of the picture is the air intake that leads to the deck next to the pilothouse. During a 10 second inversion (average for these boats) up to 1000 gallons of water can pour down into the engine room. A PTO is run from the port engine to drive a massive bilge pump (also the fire pump) to evacute the space. If you lose your port engine, you're in a bind. The only backup is a gas powered sump pump kept above deck. This boat was rolled only once in it's history, but not at Jones Beach. It was on the West Coast at the time.

44342b.jpg
 
Top