What heck is going on with Propane prices???

[JB]

Re: What heck is going on with Propane prices???

My tank is 250 gal and I paid $250 for it. Saved me that much on the first fill.

My "house" is a custom built 1300sf with "rocky mountain" insulation, double pane windows, etc, etc.

I cook, heat water and dry laundry as well as heat my house with about 450gal a year.

 

[dozerII]

Re: What heck is going on with Propane prices???

Wow this is an interesting thread. I work for a large propane company, and see first hand the effects of supply and demand. Right now the delivered price for home heating is .616 a liter ($2.32 a US gal) we have been told it will be .72 by mid March. At times we are having trouble with enough supply, due to the huge demand by the oil production sector. Our small little area up here, is using about 2.25 million liters a month, which alway makes the average Joe pay in the long run.

 

[ezmobee]

Re: What heck is going on with Propane prices???

Speculators are the big problem. They're already priming us for the $4/5 per gal. It will happen. Talk about killing the economy. Look what happened when gas was high a couple years ago. People stopped traveling/spending, the economy tanked. Not like it's all that great right now....

Bingo. I've been saying that for a while. You think the economy sucks now? Add $4-5/gal gas to it and watch it really go down the crapper.

 

[j_martin]

Re: What heck is going on with Propane prices???

A good sized wood boiler when loaded up will last 4-5 days I have been told.
J martin has one I believe so he should know the in's and out's of working with them as well what ones to buy and avoide.

The only way you can keep a wood fire going for days is to have it smoulder, and that wastes about 1/2 the fuel value as smoke.

Huge boilers that hold a lot of water (100 gallons or more) will heat the house for hours after the fire goes out. They also take a long time to start heating from cold, and it's prohibitive in cost to put anti-freeze in them so once they are filled and started, you have to keep them going all winter.

Another thing about them is that they are open circuit systems, so you have to keep a close eye on the boiler fluid chemistry, and correct it immediately if it's off. If ignored, they self destruct in a year or so due to oxidation and corrosion.

I run a closed circuit, low pressure boiler at about 10 lbs pressure. It's a sealed system, and small enough to put anti-freeze in it. Once the boiler is filled and chemistry corrected, it stays good, unless there's an accidental extreme overheat and boil out, which screws up the anti-freeze and turns the whole thing into a haz-mat scene. This boiler has very comprehensive controls on it that will actually extinguish the fire in a power out situation.

On propane price, if the supplier owns the tank, yer stuck with whatever he wants to charge you. If you outright own your tank, you can shop. Supplier owned tank price around here is in the 2.20 - 2.30 range. I just filled up at 1.94 for 225 gallons. That should last me 2-3 years. Name of the supplier is "Cash Gas".

 

[bruceb58]

Re: What heck is going on with Propane prices???

Unfortuantely, in my area none of the suppliers will fill an owners tank. They claim that there is too much liability. I know. .that sounds like a big excuse to be able to keep you locked in. I switched companies 3 times before I found a company that ended up being the cheapest. The worst crooks in my area are Suburban propane.

 

[QC]

Re: What heck is going on with Propane prices???

$2,24 is less than 87 octane regular right now, so I won't squawk about it

In every one of these threads I see a very common mistake, whether it be Ethanol, Propane, whatever. You have to use energy equivalency or the comparisons are inaccurate . . . It takes 1.36 gallons of Propane to equal the energy in a gallon of Gasoline. You cannot escape energy equivalency. It doesn't really matter when you are talking heating as you can't fill your home's LPG tank with Gasoline , but when you compare to Gasoline you need to make that calc or you're kidding yourself, and of course the Propane marketers hope for just that. $2.24 x 1.36 = $3.04

 

[WIMUSKY]

Re: What heck is going on with Propane prices???

My tank is 250 gal and I paid $250 for it. Saved me that much on the first fill.

My "house" is a custom built 1300sf with "rocky mountain" insulation, double pane windows, etc, etc.

I cook, heat water and dry laundry as well as heat my house with about 450gal a year.

The beauty of living in Texas. We just filled our tank(we're on a keep fill). 314gals for 1 month(it was a cold month). Probably average 250/month during winter. Includes heat, hot water and cooking. 2000sq ft house, zoned hot water heat(boiler) w/3 zones built in '91. Most people around here use 500gal tanks which if you bought outright cost around $1000, I believe.

 

[SparkieBoat]

Re: What heck is going on with Propane prices???

find a politician that says "drill drill drill" and "build refineries build refineries build refineries" and vote for them and we will get gas and propane back down to $1 per gallon as it should be.

 

[SparkieBoat]

Re: What heck is going on with Propane prices???

The federal regs, and in my state the local regs put all the fault on the suplpier if there is an accident. Why? Because there were far to many accidents with privately owned tanks that were not kept in good repair or tested properly. I have personally seen the after math of a propane tank explosion (a small 100 lb. tank) and the devastation was shocking. You simply would not believe such a small amount could cause such massive destruction. I didn't until I seen it first hand.

they will fill them here where I live but the tanks have to be no older than 5 years.

 

[64osby]

Re: What heck is going on with Propane prices???

314gals for 1 month(it was a cold month). Probably average 250/month during winter. Includes heat, hot water and cooking. 2000sq ft house, zoned hot water heat(boiler) w/3 zones built in '91.

250/month gal or $ ?
314 gal in one month, is your house insulated?
We go through about 900 gal a year, w/o using wood stove, house is 2400 sq/ft. I added 6" of insulation 3 years ago, made a huge difference.

 

[PW2]

Re: What heck is going on with Propane prices???

I'm thankful I use natural gas.

I locked in this year at $0.648 per CCF, down from almost a dollar two years ago. I recall I had the chance to lock in 5 years at 99 cents back then to which I said "No, thanks"

 

[roscoe]

Re: What heck is going on with Propane prices???

Bubba, before you buy a big outdoor furnace, check out a geo-thermal unit.

They have really come a long way, and are the system of choice for new construction, even up here in the frozen tundra.

2 neighbors put them in when they built new homes 3 years ago. $9500 after incentives and tax credits. 5-6 year roi .

In your area, a smaller system should cost less.

250/month gal or $ ?
314 gal in one month, is your house insulated?
We go through about 900 gal a year, w/o using wood stove, house is 2400 sq/ft. I added 6" of insulation 3 years ago, made a huge difference.

It gets much colder on the west side of the great lakes , 64osby.
And move north, above the 45th parallel.
NW Wisconsin has had an almost continuous arctic blast coming down out of Canada this year.
And it has been colder in MN.

I use about 1200 gallons for the year, gonna be more this year. Sucks to have to run a furnace for 7 + months a year, but we don't need air conditioning in the summer.

 

[bruceb58]

Re: What heck is going on with Propane prices???

Just got my bill today. $3.55/gallon

 

[CatTwentyTwo]

Re: What heck is going on with Propane prices???

Just got my bill today. $3.55/gallon

We're with Northern Energy and their price on Friday was $2.96 a gallon and we thought that was high. I guess not.

 

[j_martin]

Re: What heck is going on with Propane prices???

I was an "Stationary operating Engineer" (maintained and operated 3 - 1000 HP boilers) when I was a young fellow and I've often wondered why these wood boilers systems aren't designed better. A small Bell & Gosset recirc. pump located in a basement along with say a 200 gallon tank would make it fairly simple to allow the boiler to drain back to the tank when not burning. Keeping the water chemesty right would be much easier. If that tank is well insulated and the water kept at say 180 - 200 F. it would store a lot of heat for use durning non-burn times. (Easily over night I would think.)

There's lots of things you can do for heat storage, but it usually works out that it's not worth the trouble.

Most of the water chemistry problems are caused by oxygen from the atmosphere. The more you slosh the fluid around and especially the more you fill and drain tanks, the worse the maintenance is.

Next step for my system is to replace all the relay logic with a custom PIC control system. I should be able to build in maintenance analysis procedures that make it possible for someone else to fix it if needed.

 

[j_martin]

Re: What heck is going on with Propane prices???

they will fill them here where I live but the tanks have to be no older than 5 years.

My tank is quite old, but is well maintained, with relatively new brass, a pressure inspection about 10 years ago, and an automotive grade paint job on it. Never had it's integrity questioned.

Actually, when I think back, Cash Gas sold me the tank as traded in for a few hundred bucks. I put it in the tank shop and had it sand blasted, sonar tested, re-fitted, and painted. Since then I've had to replace a gasket under the gauge, and the hog tail.

 

[bigdee]

Re: What heck is going on with Propane prices???

There's lots of things you can do for heat storage, but it usually works out that it's not worth the trouble.

Most of the water chemistry problems are caused by oxygen from the atmosphere. The more you slosh the fluid around and especially the more you fill and drain tanks, the worse the maintenance is.

Next step for my system is to replace all the relay logic with a custom PIC control system. I should be able to build in maintenance analysis procedures that make it possible for someone else to fix it if needed.

Sounds like a fun project. Just curious,what brand PLC are you considering?

 

[perchin]

Re: What heck is going on with Propane prices???

Propane company's in my area won't fill a tank unless its thiers. Natural Gas is not available at my house.

I wouldn't waste my money on a OUTDOOR wood boiler... had one for a while, and am glad I switched to a indoor pellet stove. No more cutting wood, splitting it, going outside into the cold to fill it. etc. etc.

The first year we owned our house, we had to have the 500 gallon tank filled 5 times Every fill up was close to $900.00. so around $4500.00 for the year. The following year we installed a Timberwolf outdoor wood boiler. I liked it at first, but the wife hated having to go outside, and waste so much time in the woods cutting, and then splitting.

The following year we sold the Timberwolf, and got a Breckwell BIG E furnace. Its a pellet stove, and runs for the entire week non-stop on one filling of pellets. I only have to clean it once a week, and it produces maybe a gallon of ash a week.... its that simple. The benefits are great. We store the pellets by the ton in our basement, you can fill it inside where its warm, we only go through on average of the last 4 years 4 to 5 ton a winter. The pellets we use are UNCLE JEDS softwood for $219 a ton. so $1095.00 a year to heat.

oh yeah... we heat approx. 1900sf. and it stays a nice toasty 76? to 77?

 

[avenger79]

Re: What heck is going on with Propane prices???

with a large and very old farm house I go through 600-750 gals per year of propane. last fill was 2.04 / gal. sheesh I thought that was high. think I'll keep my mouth shut and enjoy that price for now. LOL

 

[cribber]

Re: What heck is going on with Propane prices???

Just had my tank filled today and Propane prices here in central Florida are now $5.51 a gallon
Luckily we only use it for hot water and cooking.