What motor do I have and what outdrive do I need?

[PMP]

Hello,

First I would like to say I am totally new to boats However I build race cars for a living so engine functions are not new to me. I am having a hard time with terminology to do proper searches to find the info I need. Here are my questions-

I just got a 98 stingray 190LS. The outdrive was stolen and the motor is disassembled and rusted out badly. I know It is a 4.3 but I don't know what brand 4.3 it is. It has mercruiser on the exhaust manifolds, Vortec on the valve covers and everywhere I am reading says it should have the VP motor.

The serial number on the block says Mercury marine SN- 022226 (the last number might be an 8 but I think its a 6).

My next question is can I put a Chevy 4.3 long block from a car with all the bolt ons from this motor in the boat? (Only using the long block, I understand I need the Marine Alt, Starter, distributer, camshaft ect)

I am also considering building this motor in the boat however it super rusted right now and it seems to be seized. Any takes on this?

Last question is about the outdrive. How do I know what ones will work with my Mercuiser transom? (Serial number on transom is- OL218071)


Would pictures help with any of this?

Thanks for your time

Jason

 

[Don S]

Re: What motor do I have and what outdrive do I need?

Doesn't sound like a bunch of parts to me. If that engine serial number has a 0L in front of it, it works out to be the same year as the transom shield SN you posted. Both for a 1998 4.3 engine with an Alpha I Gen II outdrive.

My next question is can I put a Chevy 4.3 long block from a car with all the bolt ons from this motor in the boat? (Only using the long block, I understand I need the Marine Alt, Starter, distributer, camshaft ect)

Yes, as long as you use the marine electrical and fuel system parts, it will remain safe to operate.
I would sure use the marine cam if at all possible, over one from a car. It's more designed for the way a marine engine runs.

I am also considering building this motor in the boat however it super rusted right now and it seems to be seized. Any takes on this?

Build it out of the boat, clean it up right. You wil be better off in the long run.

Here are the OEM service manuals for your engine and outdrive. Spend some time in them and I think you will answer a lot of your questions.

Engine http://www.4shared.com/document/dKAM4Vg8/Service_Manual_25.html
Drive & Transom shield http://www.4shared.com/document/dPQUcyn_/Service_Manual_14.html

If you need a drive for that engine and transom shield, you can get an aftermarket SEI outdrive, brand new, complete with a 3 year warranty for around $1400 here at iboats.

 

[PMP]

Re: What motor do I have and what outdrive do I need?

Jason, you have a mis-matched basket case with parts that do not work well together. VP, Merc, and what sounds like a stack of pieces are different and the two companies go about building off the GM 4.3 in a very different manner.

Unfortunately you did not put any sort of information concerning your location so i can't recommend anyone but my best suggestion is you find someone that flips boats or a mechanic willing to look at it and have them go over it and tell you exactly what you have and need to make it work.

Having said all that, it's probably far cheaper and easier to find a donor boat (hull damaged) with a good engine drive package and install it as a complete system designed to work together. You will have far fewer problems having it worked on and it will certainlky be worth a lot more than a franken-drive would be.

Thank you for the responce. I am from Utah

On the parts I have Looking over it I don't have anything that says VP on it. The only thing that through me off was the Vortec valve cover. Does the Merc come with Vortec Valve covers?

I will keep my eyes out for a boat with a messed up hull but I don't see them for sale often around me. (I guess I have not looked hard for one though)

Here are some pictures-

 

[Don S]

Re: What motor do I have and what outdrive do I need?

It sure looks all original to me, look just over the starter for a metal tag with the engine serial number on it.

Also factor in you're going to need new exhaust manifold and riser conversion. Would bet money those manifols were the cause of the original engines demise.

 

[PMP]

Re: What motor do I have and what outdrive do I need?

Also factor in you're going to need new exhaust manifold and riser conversion. Would bet money those manifols were the cause of the original engines demise.

Got a link to what you are talking about? Those exhaust manifolds I should not use again?

And thank you for your post's

 

[achris]

Re: What motor do I have and what outdrive do I need?

When you get your new drive the ratio you'll need is 1.62:1....
Those single piece manifolds are a nightmare, bin them and put 2 piece on. You can get the new 'dry-joint' manifolds/elbows for it... They are really good....

 

[Don S]

Re: What motor do I have and what outdrive do I need?

Here is the Mercruiser service bulletin covering the conversion kit.

http://www.4shared.com/document/ffw61HtC/43_Merc_exhaust_conversion.html

It does not contain PN's for the manifolds and risers that achris mentions, and if you are in salt water I would look into them, but it may not be an easy change. As I recall, the dryjoint style had different outlet angles from the older style.
I wish they were the same because they are much better manifolds and risers.

 

[achris]

Re: What motor do I have and what outdrive do I need?

Here is the Mercruiser service bulletin covering the conversion kit.

http://www.4shared.com/document/ffw61HtC/43_Merc_exhaust_conversion.html

It does not contain PN's for the manifolds and risers that achris mentions, and if you are in salt water I would look into them, but it may not be an easy change. As I recall, the dryjoint style had different outlet angles from the older style.
I wish they were the same because they are much better manifolds and risers.

Merc do a dry-joint elbow with the right angle, they just make it really difficult to find the numbers. I will call a friend who has the numbers and post back in a couple of days. (yes, I have fitted them to an old style engine without any other mods.)

 

[Don S]

Re: What motor do I have and what outdrive do I need?

Merc do a dry-joint elbow with the right angle, they just make it really difficult to find the numbers. I will call a friend who has the numbers and post back in a couple of days. (yes, I have fitted them to an old style engine without any other mods.)

Fantastic, that would be a great upgrade, especially if we could give them part numbers without people buying a bunch of risers looking for the right ones.

 

[achris]

Re: What motor do I have and what outdrive do I need?

The difference in the angle is created by the newest dry-joint elbows being 1.7" taller than the original 'wet joint' elbows. But the first of the dry-joints elbows were the original height. I will chase those numbers....

 

[PMP]

Re: What motor do I have and what outdrive do I need?

Great info. Thank you guys. Please post part numbers when you get them from our friend. I assume the part numbers you have will route the exhaust to the location my single piece manifolds go to? I am just going to try and get the boat running before I spend money on "upgrades". Will I be ok using the stock manifolds for now and upgrading after I take her out on the water a few times?

I got the boat for a retarded good deal. Paid $100 bucks for the boat and trailer because the wife wanted it out of her driveway!! lol She does need some love though.

 

[spdracr39]

Re: What motor do I have and what outdrive do I need?

I dont know about the market in Utah but I would see if I couldn't get a working decent boat for what you are going to spend fixing that one. It looks like the floor has been pretty wet too so at least check your transom and floor for soft spots before spending a ton of cash on the drive and engine.

 

[PMP]

Re: What motor do I have and what outdrive do I need?

I dont know about the market in Utah but I would see if I couldn't get a working decent boat for what you are going to spend fixing that one. It looks like the floor has been pretty wet too so at least check your transom and floor for soft spots before spending a ton of cash on the drive and engine.

I am interested in what you see that I don't see. What makes you think this is going to cost a ton of cash to get going? Keep in mind that I will be doing the work myself. The floor is solid but the carpet is bad. I checked for soft spots and I found non. Is there a way to test more so then just stepping on your toes all around and feeling? I am genuinely interested in what I might be missing.

Jason

 

[achris]

Re: What motor do I have and what outdrive do I need?

Ok... Found the part number for the 6 1/2" high dry-joint elbows. -864309T01.
This elbow, used with a new dry-joint manifold (-864612T01), uses the original rubbers and 'secondary' elbow (-14478T01).

For OP he is going to need the following parts to move to the dry-joint manifolds (seriously recommended as those 1 piece are engine killers).
2 x exhaust manifolds, dry-joint -864612T01 (comes with gasket)
2 x dry-joint elbows. Here's where you have a choice. You can either go for the new 8" high elbows (-864591T02) or the older 6 1/2" high elbows (-864309T01).

You're also going to need the exhaust rubbers.
2 x 32-44348T
2 x 32-14358T
2 x 27-864850A02 (Elbow gaskets)
16 x 54-815504272 (hose clamps)

As for the 'secondary' elbow (just a bend tube of cast ali) you'll need either
2 x -14478T01 (if you use the 6 1/2" high elbows), or
2 x -865947A01 (to use with the 8" high elbows)

Hope this helps you all,

Chris..........

 

[PMP]

Re: What motor do I have and what outdrive do I need?

When you get your new drive the ratio you'll need is 1.62:1....
Those single piece manifolds are a nightmare, bin them and put 2 piece on. You can get the new 'dry-joint' manifolds/elbows for it... They are really good....

On the drive ratio, How did you know what I needed and Is it counter rotation or not?

 

[Don S]

Re: What motor do I have and what outdrive do I need?

On the drive ratio, How did you know what I needed

The 1.62 is the normal ratio for the V 6 engine. The only reason you would use a different ratio is for high altitude use.

Is it counter rotation or not?

No. the only time counter rotating drives are used is with twins so both props run opposite.

 

[PMP]

Re: What motor do I have and what outdrive do I need?

The 1.62 is the normal ratio for the V 6 engine. The only reason you would use a different ratio is for high altitude use.



No. the only time counter rotating drives are used is with twins so both props run opposite.

Ok that makes sense as to why they would run opposite.

On the ratio, I am at 4800 FT above sea level and most my boating is at that level or higher. What would you suggest I go with? I assume that the motor will make less power at higher elevation so using a higher ratio would assist the boat in getting up and going?

 

[achris]

Re: What motor do I have and what outdrive do I need?

...On the ratio, I am at 4800 FT above sea level and most my boating is at that level or higher. What would you suggest I go with? ...

Merc used 2 ratios on those engines as 'standard', 1.62 and 1.81. If the boat is on the bigger side, and at that altitude I would use the 1.81...

But before you even think about a new leg, get into that engine and find out if it's worth saving. At the very least drain the sump and check for water. Pull the plugs and look at the firing ends..... Check you have all the parts and something vital (and expensive) isn't missing....

JMHO

Chris.........

 

[PMP]

Re: What motor do I have and what outdrive do I need?

Merc used 2 ratios on those engines as 'standard', 1.62 and 1.81. If the boat is on the bigger side, and at that altitude I would use the 1.81...

But before you even think about a new leg, get into that engine and find out if it's worth saving. At the very least drain the sump and check for water. Pull the plugs and look at the firing ends..... Check you have all the parts and something vital (and expensive) isn't missing....

JMHO

Chris.........

I assume a 19' boat isn't one you are considering "big" so I will probably just stay with the 1.62.

On the engine, Looking through it the only thing that looks like I will need is a rear motor mount/flywheel cover. I believe everything else is there however I will probably put everything together to make sure before I yank the motor out all the way. The motor didn't have the heads on it and it is missing a piston. It is rusted bad so it will have to go to at least a 40 over pistons and hoping the crank can make a 10/10 grind. The real question is can I unseize this block without damaging the side walls more.

If I can't rebuild this block I will just use a 4.3 block I have sitting at my shop. The motor its self doesn't scare me but the nickel and dime that can happen with finding out I am missing more then I though does..

Thanks again for your input and help!