What should I do? (Ethical advice)

new_boater

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jun 1, 2007
Messages
293
Re: What should I do? (Ethical advice)

what kind of Ethical advice is being given???????????????:confused:
if you advise someone to lie is that "Ethical"???:eek:

i do not think so. :rolleyes:
but then i try to be ethical and honest in my life.

i think the jb gave to best advise and maybe simply talking to them might resolve this.

either way i believe that the boat is YOURS and see no Ethical way for them to ask for it back.

just my .02
 

The_Kid

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Apr 18, 2008
Messages
447
Re: What should I do? (Ethical advice)

As others have said the boat is legally yours. You've got the e-mails and paperwork to back that up. If it was me, I would contact them and give them 2 options. 1. Have their legal department draw up a release of liability document for you to sign. 2. Inform them that prior to returning the boat they will need to sign the invoice you have prepared for the cost of transportation, materials, and labor for the repairs done on the boat.

No, I'm not a lawyer, but my wife is a paralegal.
 

wajajaja02

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Apr 21, 2008
Messages
667
Re: What should I do? (Ethical advice)

go register the boat and send the a copy and thank you note.
 

fan4NCSU

Recruit
Joined
Oct 31, 2008
Messages
4
Re: What should I do? (Ethical advice)

Ethics? This is not an ethics questions. You already own the boat, they signed it over to you. This is a relationship questions...do you want burn your bridge with the university?
 

SgtMaj

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Nov 19, 2007
Messages
1,997
Re: What should I do? (Ethical advice)

My advice? Send a letter to them that says sorry about ya... it's already your boat. Furthermore, if they ever contact you about this matter again, your lawyer will file suit against the university for harrassment.
 

lester

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Messages
92
Re: What should I do? (Ethical advice)

Thanks for all of advice guys. I'll let you know how everything turns out.
 

jay_merrill

Vice Admiral
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
5,653
Re: What should I do? (Ethical advice)

I think there are a few issues that are not being considered.

First, does your state require a title for a boat? If so and they didn't provide one, you can't do anything with the boat anyway.

Second, does your state require some other proof of ownership (previous registration, etc.) in order to register it in your name. Same thing - if so, and the school hasn't given you that, your stuck. In either of these cases, however, if they did give another document that legally transfers ownership to you, but it isn't sufficient to register the boat, you might have a cause against them. Is it worth it? I don't think so, but the issue is there.

As to ownership, if the paperwork that you do have is legally sufficient to transfer ownership to you, they have no right at all to ask for the boat to be returned. Whether you choose to do so or not, depends more on your desire to remain in a friendly relationship with them, than anything else.

If you do give it back, I would demand a release of liability, with indemnification. Now that the boat has been in your hands, and you have done "things" to it, if they take it back, but pass it to someone else rather than to scrap it, you end up with exposure. If someone were to get hurt in it, the same sort of lawyer mentality that has brought you to your current dilemma, could come back at you in other ways.

If you decide to keep the boat, my recommendation is that you do not provide them with any sort of release at all. At this point, you have no obligation to do so, and there isn't any advantage to you in providing one. Further, if you make any such suggestion, Mr. School Lawyer will send you about a ten page agreement that will nail you for everything and anything that they could possibly suffer. In particular, they will want you to indemnify them, meaning that you end up defending them as well as yourself, if something happens. Why think about this? Because they have a lot more money than you do, and anyone who gets hurt in your boat could hire an attorney, who will then look for deep pockets. Since that lawyer will press hard for a settlement from the school, you'll end up with some serious legal bills for the defense that they put up. Your free boat could end up costing you tens of thousands of dollars. Admittedly, I have taken the potential for problems to the extreme, but this is not out of the realm of possibilities.

If you don't wish to end up with unhappiness over a boat that really hasn't cost you much, I suggest that you simply take the it to an aluminum recycling facility. I have no idea what an aluminum boat would fetch, but if it is about 30 cents per pound and the boat weighs a couple of hundred pounds, you will walk away with 60 bucks. Afterwards, if you want to be a nice guy, you can call your original contact at the school and tell him that the boat has been destroyed.

Mr Lawyer will probably want an affidavit or something, but my inclination would be to say no. Once again, you have no obligation to talk to them at all. Simply tell them that you decided to remove the concerns that they had, and leave it at that.


PS: I just went back and read JBJ's comments. He and I are both from Louisiana, and would probably agree that the chances of registering that boat here, would be about nil. The La. Dept. of Wildlife & Fisheries is very tough in regard to boats without proper paperwork. You can't even register one as "homemade," unless you can show receipts for the materials used to make it!
 

chiefalen

Captain
Joined
May 18, 2008
Messages
3,598
Re: What should I do? (Ethical advice)

Heres a analogy i would put to them.

Over 40 years ago i took a business course, i still remember it.

Someone gives you a teapot. The spigot is broken off it, the handle is broken and it has a hole in it so it won't hold water.

Clearly it can't be used for the original intended purpose, to hold and boil water.

Someone gives you the pot.

You fix the hole, put a new spout and handle, and gold plate it.

Clearly it is not the same teapot.

The person that gave you the pot sees it and now demands it back.

Do you ethically have to return the pot?

Of course not.

Now to the legal question.

If you paid 1 dollar and it was a sale, than there would be no recourse as to the University.

If you can prove it was a gift they cannot ask for it back.

Once given a gift cannot be asked to be returned.

A guy gives you a hamburger, you eat it , can he ask for it back?

Now to that lawyer, i would advise the lawyer in writing you consider the matter closed.

Or you will forward to the state bar ***. all writings you have received.

And that he oversaw the transfer of the property.

And you in good faith have invested mush time, effort, and expense to refurbish, your property.

As to registering your boat.

I believe under a certain length and not powered, does not need to be registered.

You should check with your local authority.

Good luck and g-d bless.
 

lester

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Messages
92
Re: What should I do? (Ethical advice)

Thanks for the advice. Awoke to a voicemail from the school this morning, letting me know that they "contrary to what was said" are no longer agreeing to giving the boat away and want me to bring it back to campus ASAP so they can dispose of it. From the sound of the message, I'm not even sure that they know that I have a signed waste removal agreement. I'm afraid the guy who was so great in helping me(the REC SPORTs Head) signed that before he had the official OK. I really don't want to get the rec sports guy fired or anything (he's a younger 30-ish guy) who really wanted to help me and I'm afraid if I let the school lawyers know that I have a signed waste removal document by him, he will get in huge trouble...maybe lose his job. Thinking about just scrapping it in aluminum yard...but hate to see a fixable boat go like that. I labeled this post incorrectly since it is not an ethical question, but more of an "ethical issues" question. I probably made it appear like I was going to follow the most "ethical advice". Sorry for the confusion, just trying to get the best possible outcome out of this situation for everybody....except the lawyers. haha
 

KeyWestBoater

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Feb 22, 2008
Messages
235
Re: What should I do? (Ethical advice)

Maybe you should call the rec sports guy and see if it's going to be a problem for him if you push to keep the boat if that's your only concern. If he's not going to get in trouble then call the person who left you the email and explain that you've already made the repairs and invested time and $$ in it so you won't be able to return it. I'll bet they drop it.
 

SgtMaj

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Nov 19, 2007
Messages
1,997
Re: What should I do? (Ethical advice)

Thanks for the advice. Awoke to a voicemail from the school this morning, letting me know that they "contrary to what was said" are no longer agreeing to giving the boat away and want me to bring it back to campus ASAP so they can dispose of it. From the sound of the message, I'm not even sure that they know that I have a signed waste removal agreement. I'm afraid the guy who was so great in helping me(the REC SPORTs Head) signed that before he had the official OK. I really don't want to get the rec sports guy fired or anything (he's a younger 30-ish guy) who really wanted to help me and I'm afraid if I let the school lawyers know that I have a signed waste removal document by him, he will get in huge trouble...maybe lose his job. Thinking about just scrapping it in aluminum yard...but hate to see a fixable boat go like that. I labeled this post incorrectly since it is not an ethical question, but more of an "ethical issues" question. I probably made it appear like I was going to follow the most "ethical advice". Sorry for the confusion, just trying to get the best possible outcome out of this situation for everybody....except the lawyers. haha

You should just go down and tranfer the registration in your name ASAP, and let them know that they no longer own this boat, so they are S.O.L.
 

lester

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Messages
92
Re: What should I do? (Ethical advice)

Unfortunately, the title to the boat is still in their name, I was working on getting it when they reversed their decision. They couldn't find the title when I was picking up the boat, so they told me to come back in 2 days and they would have it by then. I called two days later and left a message asking when I could come sign over the title. I got the emails two days after that letting me know that the University is no longer giving the boat away. All I ever was given was
A. Waste removal document (signed by University)
B. the boat

Without the title or written and notorized consent from the title holder's, I can't register the boat in my state, and they aren't going to sign anything at this point. My only option would be to paint this thing a different color, take off every identifying placard or decal, claim the boat was bought and there was no HIN or placards of any kind, sign under perjury to these claims, submit photos of the boat from all angles and then possibly have the boat inspected by DNR. Not too sure I could get away with all of that, and pretty sure I'd lose boating licensing privilege if I got caught. I'm thinking its just not worth it...
 

KeyWestBoater

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Feb 22, 2008
Messages
235
Re: What should I do? (Ethical advice)

I think that you should politely explain to them that the waste removal document is legal and that they are obligated to turn the title over to you. They only way they get the boat back is if they reimburse you for your time and materials. It's not your fault they changed their mind after the deal was done.
 

new_boater

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jun 1, 2007
Messages
293
Re: What should I do? (Ethical advice)

I think that you should politely explain to them that the waste removal document is legal and that they are obligated to turn the title over to you. They only way they get the boat back is if they reimburse you for your time and materials. It's not your fault they changed their mind after the deal was done.

DITTO
 

cheburashka

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
May 28, 2005
Messages
715
Re: What should I do? (Ethical advice)

Heres a analogy i would put to them.

Over 40 years ago i took a business course, i still remember it.

Someone gives you a teapot. The spigot is broken off it, the handle is broken and it has a hole in it so it won't hold water.

Clearly it can't be used for the original intended purpose, to hold and boil water.

Someone gives you the pot.

You fix the hole, put a new spout and handle, and gold plate it.

Clearly it is not the same teapot.

The person that gave you the pot sees it and now demands it back.

Do you ethically have to return the pot?

Of course not.

Sadly, I've seen a few cases where lawyers used tactics like these and they worked. I worked in a shop that received frequent shipments from a specific major freight company. We contracted with them because they had good prices. We did business with them for four years, at which point we received a letter which told us that the freight company had violated the law in offering prices that were too low. We were presented with a bill for the difference between what we paid, and what a far more expensive company would have charged. As I recall, it was well into the five-digit range. We did what any rational American would do. We fired off a letter telling them that they were insane and asking them to take a flying leap.

In the end, the shop wound up settling as it was cheaper than the lawyer's fees and the court costs.
 

lester

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Sep 23, 2008
Messages
92
Re: What should I do? (Ethical advice)

If anyone is interested, I thought I'd let you guys know whats going on. I got a voicemail the other morning from the Rec Sports Head letting me he tried to do everything in his power for me to keep the boat, but "the boat needs to be put back ASAP". He also wanted me to give him a call ASAP to make sure there weren't going to be any "problems". At this point, I was still pondering the possibilities of keeping the boat and repainting it...etc, so I didn't call him back because I still was planning on hanging onto the boat. I awoke the next morning to another voicemail from him letting me know that he didn't see the boat back there yet. At this point, I was starting to feel harassed. I decided to give him a call and see how long this was going to continue. He immediately answered the phone by letting me know he was sorry but that I "needed to just go ahead and put the boat back...OK?" I let him know that I borrowed a truck to transport the boat and wasn't going to borrow another vehicle and use my gas to fix his problem. I told him that if somebody from the University wants to come out, I'll even help them load the boat. He sounded frustrated and eventually just told me somebody would be contacting me to come get the boat. Click. That has been two days ago and still no calls. I'm hoping that it just blows over and I'll just hang on the boat, but we'll see. If I don't hear from somebody by the end of the month, I'm just considering the boat my property and getting on with giving this boat a new life.
 

KeyWestBoater

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Feb 22, 2008
Messages
235
Re: What should I do? (Ethical advice)

This is beginning to sound "fishy" to me. I think if they were really concerned about liability or had any legal grounds they wouldn't just be leaving voicemails. I think someone on their staff had dibs on the boat and is ticked that it was given away. Tell them it's no longer the same boat and that you have time and materials in it. You will gladly sell them the boat if they really want it. Your labor is worth a lot, don't you think? :D Like I said before, it's not your fault they changed their mind after you fixed it.

I'd also call them back and tell them not to bother coming to pick it up unless they bring a check. Just my 2 cents.
 

joed

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Sep 28, 2002
Messages
1,135
Re: What should I do? (Ethical advice)

If they still hold the ownership be wary of them filing a stolen property report with the cops. Sounds like they are serious about getting it back.
 

ToothDocNick

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Sep 5, 2008
Messages
79
Re: What should I do? (Ethical advice)

I must say that this has been an interesting thread. Since you got the boat for nothing, it might just be worth finding a lawyer to draw a letter for a $100 or so and let them chew on that for a while. If they gave you a waste removal reciept they should legally have given you the title. This definitely sounds like someone else had laid claim to the boat, but never bothered to get it. Now that person is causing a ruckus. A simpe letter might stop all of this and since the boat cost nothing, consider the fee for a letter the cost of the boat.
 

KeyWestBoater

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Feb 22, 2008
Messages
235
Re: What should I do? (Ethical advice)

I think as long as you have the waste removal receipt there is no grounds for reporting it stolen. I think you should let them know where you stand and "call their bluff" so to speak. See how they react.
 
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