What should I do?

[ajgraz]

Re: What should I do?

There is no such thing as loyalty between employee and employer in either direction anymore.

That's as pathetic as it is inaccurate....

Agree with you Tim. Most people, thank goodness, have never been in the position of having to make the choice of laying off ("making redundant") their friends and co-workers in order to keep the whole business afloat. I've been in that position, depressingly, a few times in the past few years....and if somebody thinks it is easy they haven't done it. You know when you're making the decision to let somebody go that you're temporarily or permanently ruining somebody's life. The main issue is that this is not the "good old days" with large companies, flat economies, little competition, complacent consumers and decades long business cycles. Issues spring up very quickly now, both positive and negative, and that is reflected in the employment cycle.

tx1961whaler, seems to me you are only half agreeing with Tim, and--perhaps reluctantly--fully agreeing with me. My statement is pathetic, yes; but by your own example, quite accurate. People do get canned through no fault or deficiency of their own, and often with little or no forewarning. No one should be complacently sitting around, waiting for that day to come. Likewise, in my opinion, no one should forego an opportunity to "get while the gettin's good," out of some misplaced, unrequited sense of loyalty to a corporation.

And please note, I am not making a value judgment here. I never said it was wrong for it to be this way, or that I wish for an impossible return to some mythical, rosy, past era when everyone got a cradle-to-grave sinecure. I'm just calling it as I see it.

You know the old saying, "Capitalism is surely the worst economic system, except for all the others that have been tried."

you have given me a restless night ajgraz, and i wonder if i handled your comment as well as I could have.
So if you are still following this thread, may I suggest you re-think your opinion, as you may be isolating yourself, and you may not be quite so insulated if the boss moves on you first.

Didn't mean to keep you up at night. I've been thinking a lot about this, too.

As I said earlier, I have come in every day for the last 15 years fully prepared for the boss to, as you say, "make a move on me." During my interview here, I was acquainted with the company's written policy that we are expected to: keep an up-to-date resume at all times, spend company time on networking and scanning the field, and challenge our managers to keep us from jumping ship. I knew then that this was a company that was going to be honest about the reality of employer/employee relations.

To me, it is the fact that I do not get emotionally invested in the company (as distinct from my co-workers), or in the job (as distinct from my work or my career), that is the great equalizer. I do not "fear" being let go, certainly not any more than the company "fears" I will leave. On the contrary, every former co-worker I keep in touch with has not only gone on to something that was a better fit, but has also become a valued customer for the company. Hey, maybe that's why we're encouraged to leave

Maybe it's cultural differences based on: country, urban vs. rural, white vs. blue collar. Maybe it's generational. Or maybe it's that by education, training and vocation, I am a professional cynic and skeptic. But I find the notion of a patriarchal management, granting the "grace and favor" of employment, expecting a pliant and credulous workforce, to be stultifying...dare I say nanny-ish. No offense, but even more distasteful to me is the notion of employer as "social worker":
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=431261

Heck, I would go so far as to say that corporations and employers have no business being involved in health benefits, retirements plans (formerly pensions, now 401k's) and the like...talk about tying on the apron strings (shackles?)! But now I truly digress...

The main point I've been trying to make all along here, in direct response to the original poster's concern about taking a job he knows he may leave within weeks or months, is that you simply gotta do what's best for you. The company or organization you leave will sink or swim based on its' own merits, not based on your leaving it.

What is "best for you" might be making the most money, or accomodating hours, or something to get some experience under your belt in your field. It might be personally fulfilling volunteer work. It might be backpacking across Europe. Only you can make that call. But, second point I've been trying to make: keep your options open, and do not hesitate to sieze an opportunity.

 

[tx1961whaler]

Re: What should I do?

"There is no such thing as loyalty between employee and employer in either direction anymore."
I was disagreeing with the absolute statement made. If "loyalty" is defined as a guarantee that somebody will be employed, then there has rarely ever been "loyalty" in modern history. I would agree that there is less loyalty now than there was in the past.
I have a pretty unique perspective on this. I've been at various times blue-collar, union, non-union, white-collar, self-employed, and now executive "C"-level. I can see and recognize various sides of the issue and I do appreciate some level of dedication from people to a company and respect those that do show it. I also think most employers really try to keep employees with them as long as they can. Without some level of loyalty from both the employer and employee, things will just fall apart. And if something bad happens down the road that does not mean that loyalty was misguided or not appreciated or non-existent; it just means that something bad happened.

 

[foodfisher]

Re: What should I do?

C/Kudos to you guys. I thought this thread was going to get locked. You all came around and made me glad you're part of the iboat community. Thanks.