What to do about ethanol gas when winterizing?

[Lou_F]

I recently purchased my first boat, a 2008 Bayliner 175 with the 4 cylinder 135 HP Mercruiser I/O. I am starting to think about what to do when I have to winterize it as far as gas goes, to try and avoid the problems with ethanol fuel water buildup and gunk. I have spoken to numerous folks including certified Mercruser mechanics and I am getting a lot of different stories.

1> Leave 1/4 tank of gas in and add an additive?

2> Fill tank all the way up to prevent condensation?

3> Drain tank and run engine till dry (To prevent gas from gumming up carb)?

A few folks I talked to tell me some of the additives actually make the problem worse.

Also, my local Walmart sells a fuel and water separator kit that I can install. Do these things do any good?

Thanks in advance for any advice you can give me.
Lou

 

[chiefalen]

Re: What to do about ethanol gas when winterizing?

I'm going to start a s--t storm here, but here goes.

Don't add nothing to the gas fill her up and leave it.

Add the fuel water seporater.

Want her to start next year right drain the 2 plugs add a little anti-freeze to the hoses, pull them off at the t-stat, leave the drive down all winter so the water pump in the drive don't freeze, and pull the battery out and put it on a piece of wood in the garage.

Good Luck!

 

[Fishermark]

Re: What to do about ethanol gas when winterizing?

Also, my local Walmart sells a fuel and water separator kit that I can install. Do these things do any good?

Hi Lou - your boat did not come with a fuel / water separator? If not, then yes! By all means put one on. You need to make sure it is for inboard or i/o use however. Don't buy one designed for outboards - I believe some of those have glass or plastic bowls which would be a no/no in your case.

 

[Don S]

Re: What to do about ethanol gas when winterizing?

Have you considered doing what your Mercruiser engine owners manual suggests?

 

[enn858]

Re: What to do about ethanol gas when winterizing?

I am looking foreward to hear the comments on this topic

I have same boat as you - and run with Ethanol blenden fuel

The last 2 winters I have added fuel stabilizer drained the fueltank and ran fuel out of carburator

This winter i am planing to fill the gas tank up add fuel stabilizer

What is then best? well i think it is difficult to answer as it also depends on where/under witch conditions you store your boat.

Mine is stored indoor and the temp in not changing much under the 5 month storage period

The water separating fuel filter should have been installed long ago on your boat - ethanol blended fuel or not

I installed a Racor fuel filter/water separator on my boat before I ever used it - Bayliner should IMHO have installed one from factory - but they havent.

 

[Don S]

Re: What to do about ethanol gas when winterizing?

Read the last section in the link below. It's from Mercruiser.

http://northamerica.mercurymarine.com/serviceandwarranty/mercruiserfaqs/ethanol.php

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: What to do about ethanol gas when winterizing?

You know.....I have to agree with you on all except one. I have let gas sit for a year and not had a problem with it (it actually went 2 years. ) If you use the boat every year then it actually "sits" for a few months LESS than a year.

I usually drain it, use it, I don't worry about condensation. (my boat is stored inside an insulated building) You gonna keep it in a garage/storage building etc? If you store the boat inside where you do not have large temperature swings you're less likely to have condensation in the tank.

Now, my disagree,

pull the battery out and put it on a piece of wood in the garage.

Old wives tail. Absolutely no evidence to support placing batteries on wood over concrete( or any other insulator for that matter...) Wood AND concrete are both insulators. Battery cases are insulators. electric current cannot flow thru concrete, wood, or plastic, or rubber.....(at 12.6v that is.....at high voltages [thousands] it will flow thru anything)

NOW, if you have a liquid lead acid battery, and you have allowed condensation of acid on top of the battery, current WILL flow between the terminals ON TOP of the battery thru the condensed electrolyte on the surface of the battery and discharge it over time...... If you keep it clean that won't happen.

Batteries also will "self discharge" regardless of what you set them on over time. Therefore if you get a pulsing charger that will shut off once the battery is fully charged then you can keep it fully charged for an indefinite length of time. I have 3 batteries that I have keep in that manner for almost 3 years. (on concrete too) I also ensure that they are kept clean on the top. The charger only pulses once in a while.


Cheers,


Rick

 

[enn858]

Re: What to do about ethanol gas when winterizing?

Thank you Don

After reading the recomendation i will drain my fuel tank and let the engine run out of fuel before storage

It is easy to drain all fuel from the tank on a B-L 175 - and since mercruiser recomends that procedure - we might as well follow it.

 

[chiefalen]

Re: What to do about ethanol gas when winterizing?

Ok don't put it on a piece of wood it's your battery, and if your floor don't get cold ok. However a cold floor will draw the battery down faster than a warm floor.

How about disconnecting the battery cables? That ok?

What i do is take the battery into my garage. And charge it once or twice over the winter with a smart charger.

About the link i read it. I don't like that sta-bil. Or any other fuel stabilizer product.

Every time i used it i had to clean the carbs in my small engines.

When i just left the fuel in it no problem one pull and it would start sometimes 2 pulls.

Running the motor till it's out of gas is a better option. But i only do that with my out board.External tank and i disconnect the tank before running it dry.

Now for draining the tank and leaving it empty. That is the most dangerous is my humble opinion and a sure way to get water in the tank, from condensation. Gas fumes are more dangerous that liquid gas.

When we used to store planes we topped off the tank. If decommissioned than there was a whole procedure for purging the tanks. Not one drop of gas was left and the tanks were cleaned with special products.

I fill my tank up and leave it.

I posted what i do.

Good luck!

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: What to do about ethanol gas when winterizing?

I have always heard about partially filled fuel tanks and condensation in them etc... Never had it happen to me... (I've kept my airplane in an unheated hanger for 26 years with partially filled fuel tanks and never had ANY condensation....in fact in the last 10 years I haven't drained ANY water from either tank or gascolator) I suspect that water in a gas tank comes in thru the fill cap)

Boat tanks are possibly a different matter but when I pulled my fuel tank after 18 years (from new) it didn't have any water in it and it never was stored full either...

So I wonder if fuel tanks ever get any water in them due to condensation.

So does David Pascoe who happens to be a marine surveyor who wrote "The Myth of Condensation in Fuel Tanks" and wrote a few other books. http://www.davidpascoe.com/

I'm beginning to think that condensation in fuel tanks might indeed be a myth......like the battery on concrete thing....... We sure have a LOT of them in the boating/automotive/ etc communities.......

I'm with cheifalen, I don't like fuel stabilizer stuff either...or any other snake oils for that matter...


Regards,



Rick

 

[achris]

Re: What to do about ethanol gas when winterizing?

Ok... I'll chime in with a few comments... Everybody here know I can't keep out of a discussion like this....

1. Condensation forming in partially filled tanks.... No myth, it happens... Why? Because as the air warms and expands it moves out of the tank... as it cools again the air (now laden with moisture, called humidity) is drawn back into the tank. The 'wet' air hits the fuel in the tank and the moisture drops straight into the fuel... Then the next day it goes through the same cycle again... Eventually you have enough water in the fuel to start causing problems.... So, why doesn't it happen to HT32BSX115 and his aeroplane? Because the air is below freezing... Air below freezing can't hold water.... It falls out, and we call it snow! I love the stuff!!!

2. Batteries on cold floors... They discharge... also no myth... As the temperature of a battery's electrolyte drops, it discharges the battery quicker. The wood is a good insulator and the liquid in the battery can't get as cold as a concrete floor... Try this the next time it's really cold.... Have a digital camera with a battery meter? Keep the camera inside, nice and warm... turn it on and see how much charge is in the battery... Take it outside, nice and cold, wait a few minutes and do the same... Bet you loss about 30% of the charge.... and that just in a few minutes...

have fun guys

Chris.............

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: What to do about ethanol gas when winterizing?

Uh...Chris,


It hardly ever snows here .....It also hardly ever gets below freezing!
http://www.see-seattle.com/weather.htm


It also hardly ever gets above 90 which is why everybody from everywhere else is moving here

 

[achris]

Re: What to do about ethanol gas when winterizing?

...
It also hardly ever gets above 90 which is why everybody from everywhere else is moving here

Not me pal ... It never snows here , and summertime is WARM I get to use my boat all year round AND don't have to winterize

Cheers.....

P.S. On the condensation thing... As the air temp gets lower the amount of moisture the air can carry is much less... So in cold weather, even above freezing, it's not really a big issue...

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: What to do about ethanol gas when winterizing?

Not me pal ... It never snows here , and summertime is WARM I get to use my boat all year round AND don't have to winterize

Cheers.....

P.S. On the condensation thing... As the air temp gets lower the amount of moisture the air can carry is much less... So in cold weather, even above freezing, it's not really a big issue...

Yeah and you're coming into the REAL spring and Summer now too....(lucky dog)

That article on fuel tank condensation was interesting to me since the humidity here is always pretty high. except during JUL/AUG/SEP when it's fairly warm... Carbureter ice is VERY common around here in the fall/winter/spring

 

[achris]

Re: What to do about ethanol gas when winterizing?

Yeah and you're coming into the REAL spring and Summer now too....(lucky dog)

So, when can I expect you?

 

[TilliamWe]

Re: What to do about ethanol gas when winterizing?

3> Drain tank and run engine till dry (To prevent gas from gumming up carb)?


Thanks in advance for any advice you can give me.
Lou

Do this, and send it to me!

 

[chiefalen]

Re: What to do about ethanol gas when winterizing?

How did the carb on the plane freeze up. Was it the fuel that froze? Where did the water come from but the tank.

I never went to any fancy boat school but does 15 weeks of aircraft, air force school count.3abr43131c was what my assigned job. Last c was for internal combustion aircraft. I was in the last class to graduate with the c.Than the course was cut down to 6 weeks, and all prop planes went to coast guard or whatever.

I never worked on any 200,000 dollar boats.

Do 1 billion dollar radar planes, or nuclear carrying planes count?

Take a glass of cold beverage with ice out into 80 degree weather, sit in on a table does the glass sweat? The out side of the glass was dry.

The guy who says condensation doesn't happen in gas tanks are just wrong.

The guy who leaves his battery on the floor in freezing weather will have to buy a new battery sooner than the guy who puts a piece of wood under his.

 

[Lou_F]

Re: What to do about ethanol gas when winterizing?

It is easy to drain all fuel from the tank on a B-L 175 - and since mercruiser recomends that procedure - we might as well follow it.

First off, thanks for all the responses, lots of great info on this forum.

I would like to drain all the fuel, but it doesn't look that easy to me. To siphon it off, I need to pass a tube down the fill pipe, which has a few turns in it, a very daunting task. The hose fittings on the tank appear to be attached to the hoses with some kind of sealant, so I don't want to mess with those. If anyone knows an easy way to drain the fuel, please let me know.

 

[enn858]

Re: What to do about ethanol gas when winterizing?

To empty the fuel tank before storage i use a outboard fuel line like the one on the enclosed picture

I loosen the fuel line directly on the fuel tank - put on the outboatd fuel line - pump/siphon the fuel out into a portable fuel tank - and put it in my car

 

[Haywood123]

Re: What to do about ethanol gas when winterizing?

we have had 10% ethonol here since as far back as I can remember. All I have ever done is toss stabil in the tank before I take the boat out for it's last hurrah and I have never had an issue starting it in the spring. Last year I thought I had carb issues, but it ended up being the seafoam I stuck in the tank to winterize it the previous fall, so I am back to stabil now.

As far as batteries go, I always put mine and stick them in the basement on a piece of wood and stick the trickle charger on them once over the winter. Don't know that it does anything for them, but it gives me peace of mind. If you store them in the boat, make sure they are fully charged and you will be fine.