What's Wrong?

Fastrd400

Cadet
Joined
Sep 15, 2008
Messages
18
I currently own a 5.8 EFI Cobra in a 1994 20 foot open bow Seaswirl. I have been having problems for almost a month now with poor running past 2800 RPM. It seems to "cut-out" as soon as I throttle up past that mark. I have had a boat Mechanic look at it 3 times now, and all three times there has been no change. First I was told that a few wires on the harness had burned and he replaced them. Second I was told was the low pressure fuel pump, which I replaced and still no change. Last he told me he replaced said fuel pump again and the timing was off 2 degrees. You guessed it, still no change, and yet the original factory pump is still in the boat. Short of shooting this guy in the head, what else might I look for. I'm thinking maybe coil? :confused:
 

redeye1962

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jul 6, 2008
Messages
319
Re: What's Wrong?

I can't think of anything...............shoot him:rolleyes:

That is a pet peave of mine when people rip off folks and get away with it. I had a guy do that to me in college with my first boat. He "repaired" my engine and never ran right even after I brought it back to him several times.

Good Luck and please do not shoot him. :)
 

mtnrat

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Jul 29, 2006
Messages
419
Re: What's Wrong?

Could be the valve in the fuel tank has some issues. I also had a similar experience with water in the gas.
 

chiefalen

Captain
Joined
May 18, 2008
Messages
3,598
Re: What's Wrong?

Disconnect the esa. And run it see if it fixs the problem.
 

mthieme

Captain
Joined
Oct 6, 2007
Messages
3,270
Re: What's Wrong?

First look for a different mechanic.
Does it have points or electronic ignition?
Description of either would help.
 

Fastrd400

Cadet
Joined
Sep 15, 2008
Messages
18
Re: What's Wrong?

It is electronic ignition. In the search for a new mechanic as we speak. Checked the valve on the fuel tank and didn't seem to have any issues there, Also have not noticed any water in the fuel, all filters are new, and it ran fine for half the day before we anchored and ate lunch.
 

Don S

Honorary Moderator Emeritus
Joined
Aug 31, 2004
Messages
62,321
Re: What's Wrong?

The first thing you have to do is find the model number of your engine, and determine EXACTLY what drive you have.
It's very possible you have a 93 model engine, which would have a completely different drive on it than a 94, along with a lot of other variables.
Need a FULL model number,
PS, don't worry about having a points ignition, no such thing on any EFI engine.
 

Fastrd400

Cadet
Joined
Sep 15, 2008
Messages
18
Re: What's Wrong?

Why would I need to find out about the drive? I honestly don't believe the drive has anything to do with it as the motor act the same regardless of if I have it in forward gear, or push in the neutral switch and throttle it up. It happens both in and out of the water. :(
 

Boatin Bob

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Sep 24, 2001
Messages
1,858
Re: What's Wrong?

It would still be good to have the model # to know the year instead of guessing as there could be some differences between those years even on the engine itself.

How did you determine the anti-syphon valve at the tank was OK, these things are notorious for clogging up and the fuel pump can't overcome it especially at higher speeds when more volume is required.

Are you saying you actually run this thing out of the water (on muffs) up over 2800 rpm's??
 

newport dave

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Nov 21, 2004
Messages
458
Re: What's Wrong?

Your in "SLOW" mode. This means that the engine computer is detecting low oil pressure or high coolant temp and is limiting RPM to 2800 by cutting out one bank of injectors.

It may be an actual problem with the temp or oil pressure, or just a bad sensor, or even possibly one of the sensors is shorted to ground somewhere in the wire harness.
 

Fastrd400

Cadet
Joined
Sep 15, 2008
Messages
18
Re: What's Wrong?

I did pull it off and use mouth suction to see if it operated, seemed okay as I did not have a hand vac. I did run it once on the trailer on muffs for no longer than 3 seconds to see if the problem continued after changing out the low pressure fuel pump. Water temp reads 140 on the guage, and oil pressure reads 60 on the guage. I am told that part of the wiring harness had burned coming off the barrel connector, but that it was supposedly replaced by said mechanic in August. I have tried moving the connector with the ignition on (boat not running) to see if I can find any thing out of the norm, (i.e. fuel pump cutting out) nothing. I did pinch the connectors a bit and put in some conductive grease, but still same thing is happening.
 

Boatin Bob

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Sep 24, 2001
Messages
1,858
Re: What's Wrong?

Dave could be on to something there, the low oil and hi temp sensors are not the same ones that feed your gauges and you may or may not have the audible alarm in your boat to let you know that one of them is set on. Here is a piece from the manual.


The SLOW operational system is designed to protect the engine from
damage should it lose oil pressure or experience excessively high coolant
temperature. This system will activate automatically without operator action.
The condition can be verified by checking either the oil or temperature
gauges. In the event of a high coolant temperature (200?F and above), or
low oil pressure (less than 5 psi), the coolant temperature switch or the oil
pressure switch will ground a low voltage signal in the ECA. The ECA will
then begin to alter the fuel injector firing sequence, causing the engine to run
rough and eventually bringing the engine speed below 2700 rpm. Once
below 2700 rpm, the engine will run smoothly but be limited to a max of 2700
rpm by the ECA. The engine will remain in this SLOW operational mode until
such a time as the problem is corrected or the temperatureipsi moves back
into the normal range. If the vessel is equipped with an Audible Alarm option,
a warning horn will sound as soon as the engine enters the SLOW mode.
Engine speed limiter operation is controlled by, you guessed it, the ECA.
Sensor operation, such as the rpm data from the PIP signal, is also
monitored by the ECA. If engine speed exceeds the programmed maximum
by 400 rpm, the speed limiter circuit will be activated, effectively halting all
fuel injector firing until the engine speed falls back within the allowable limits.
Once engine speed is back below the limit, the speed limiting circuit will be
de-activated and injector firing will resume.
 

Fastrd400

Cadet
Joined
Sep 15, 2008
Messages
18
Re: What's Wrong?

Dave could be on to something there, the low oil and hi temp sensors are not the same ones that feed your gauges and you may or may not have the audible alarm in your boat to let you know that one of them is set on. Here is a piece from the manual.


The SLOW operational system is designed to protect the engine from
damage should it lose oil pressure or experience excessively high coolant
temperature. This system will activate automatically without operator action.
The condition can be verified by checking either the oil or temperature
gauges. In the event of a high coolant temperature (200?F and above), or
low oil pressure (less than 5 psi), the coolant temperature switch or the oil
pressure switch will ground a low voltage signal in the ECA. The ECA will
then begin to alter the fuel injector firing sequence, causing the engine to run
rough and eventually bringing the engine speed below 2700 rpm. Once
below 2700 rpm, the engine will run smoothly but be limited to a max of 2700
rpm by the ECA. The engine will remain in this SLOW operational mode until
such a time as the problem is corrected or the temperatureipsi moves back
into the normal range. If the vessel is equipped with an Audible Alarm option,
a warning horn will sound as soon as the engine enters the SLOW mode.
Engine speed limiter operation is controlled by, you guessed it, the ECA.
Sensor operation, such as the rpm data from the PIP signal, is also
monitored by the ECA. If engine speed exceeds the programmed maximum
by 400 rpm, the speed limiter circuit will be activated, effectively halting all
fuel injector firing until the engine speed falls back within the allowable limits.
Once engine speed is back below the limit, the speed limiting circuit will be
de-activated and injector firing will resume.

Okay, this all sounds like a good place to start. I know for a fact the motor overheated on the 4th of July. It was immediately shut down and towed back in. The impeller and housing were replaced. There were 3 codes pulled, one of which was an over heating code, and all were cleared. However, it didn't fix the problem after clearing said codes. As it is now, it feels, sounds, and runns like it is intermitantly getting and losing fuel at an RPM above 2700.
 

Lodgepole

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 24, 2003
Messages
272
Re: What's Wrong?

Best way to handle JERK MECHANICS? is to pay with a good credit card. Then if it's not fixed and they put up an argument, you can call your card company and protest the charges.
 

Fastrd400

Cadet
Joined
Sep 15, 2008
Messages
18
Re: What's Wrong?

Okay, so from what I am understanding on the info the DAve and Bob gave me. I am basically stuck in "SLOW" mode. Oil pressure and motor temp both seem to be fine (judging by the dash guages), which leads me to believe that either a sensor went bad or is gounded? The boat overheated badly on July 4th, and this problem started on August 19th. Whisch again kind of tells me to look for a bad or grounded sensor. Does this seem correct to you guys?
 

JustJason

Vice Admiral
Joined
Aug 27, 2007
Messages
5,321
Re: What's Wrong?

yep... seems correct.

as always, you want to double check your oil pressure with a mechanical gauge and compare it to what the dash says.

But after that, start disconnecting the sensors 1 by 1 untill it comes out of slow mode.
 

newport dave

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Nov 21, 2004
Messages
458
Re: What's Wrong?

FYI, Both the oil pressure switch and the water temp switch are spliced to a common tan / black wire that connects to ECA (Electronic Control Assembly, more commonly called an Engine Control Module) pin 24. This circuit contains a diode that protects the ECA from damage due to reverse polarity. I don't know where the splice or diode is located on the wire harness.
 

Fastrd400

Cadet
Joined
Sep 15, 2008
Messages
18
Re: What's Wrong?

Okay, so I guess my next question would be...............where ae these sensors located, what do they look like, and disconnect them from where? Sorry, not much boat knowledge here.
 

JustJason

Vice Admiral
Joined
Aug 27, 2007
Messages
5,321
Re: What's Wrong?

why don't you try posting a couple of pictures of your engine, top and both sides, the bigger and more detailed the better.
Post them, then somebody will hop and and circle everything for ya.
 
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