Where to look for outboard model #?

[MRneatfreak]

Re: Where to look for outboard model #?

I also got few parts at a local johnson dealer, and a service manual. The manual is kind of a waste, I knew better, should have ordered the shop manual...

I feel like I got burned by the dealer, I picked up a new coil specific for the 77 year, paid $44. I figured it probably didn't matter what year johnson I got a used coil pack off of, but the dealer said otherwise that it had to be a 77. So I get home take it out of the package, and it is a universal coil which doesn't look like the other coils. I installed it anyway but the old ones are a three hole coil, and the new one is only two holes. The new one produces a bright blue spark, where as the older coils are more of white color.

By the way thank you everyone for all the help, links, part number retrieval and insight.

 

[emdsapmgr]

Re: Where to look for outboard model #?

The superceded (current) Bombardier coil number for your engine is 502888. Just under $ 50. Your local dealer can't order you a service manual. It's too old. They will direct you to purchase the original factory one from the original publisher, Ken Cook Co., in Milwaukee. You can give them a call to order over the phone, or contact them via the web: outboardbooks.com

 

[MRneatfreak]

Re: Where to look for outboard model #?

Do I need to start a new thread, as we have identified the engine?

Got the flywheel off pretty easily, maybe too easy. The key looks good couldn't really tell if the groove was off very much or not. I suspect it was fine. Although the replacement key is a half moon and the one in the keyway is flattened out a little bit, but isn't in two pieces. I will replace the shear key. But is there anything I should look at while I'm under here? I had spark at all 4 spark plugs, prior to removal, but still not even a chug, just turns over.

 

[MRneatfreak]

Re: Where to look for outboard model #?

One more thing: Anybody know the torque value on the flywheel? I called the Marina, and they said these old engines didn't matter so much with the torque, that I could just zip the nut on with a air impact and call it good.

 

[MRneatfreak]

Re: Where to look for outboard model #?




Here are pics under the flywheel.

 

[MRneatfreak]

Re: Where to look for outboard model #?

I attempted to remove the shear pin with a screwdriver, failed and decided to leave it alone. With the flywheel again on the keyway it doesn't spin, there is a tiny bit of play moving left to right, but I haven't tightened it down yet with the flywheel nut.

 

[emdsapmgr]

Re: Where to look for outboard model #?

Flywheel nut torque: 100-105 ft lbs. If the engine turns over, but has no spark, you might want to read through some online ignition troubleshooting. You will find some helpful info for your engine at: http://www.cdielectronics.com/ Considering the expense of the ignition parts on your engine, it is worth you while to do some troubleshooting first. When you are cranking the engine cand choking it to get it started, are the spark plugs wet or dry?

 

[MRneatfreak]

Re: Where to look for outboard model #?

When I'm cranking there is spark on all four, I have verified a couple of times with a spark tester. I was thinking though that the flywheel and crank shaft were off as in a sheared key, thus throwing off the timing of the fire signal.

The plugs were wet the last two times I pulled them. But I had been spraying in shot of 50:1 into each carb throat before start up, thinking there was a carb/float problem. It still didn't start.

I remember on my 115 Force I used to have, after not running for a week, it would crank for about 2 seconds and pop off, and I would have to fool around a couple of tries with the electric choke, but that was it. With this Johnson it'll crank for 5-10 seconds and won't attempt to fire or chug.

Thanks for the torque and the link. My next step, is to set base timing without the engine running.

 

[emdsapmgr]

Re: Where to look for outboard model #?

The fact that the plugs are wet during cranking is a good sign for the fuel system. At this point, I'd say that is ok. Turn your attention back to the ignition system.. You want to know if the engine is firing in proper time. First thing I'd do is get an inductive timing light. Put it on spark plug wire #1 and have someone crank the engine. Hold the gun over the timing marks on the top of the flywheel and see what it reads on the marks for #1 cyl. That flywheel has marks for #2 cyl, so I'd repeat that test with the #2 spark plug wire. Since the engine would be a near idle during this process, the timing should be around 4-7 degrees. (idle timing will vary on each engine.) Both cyls should ready within a degree or two of each other.

 

[MRneatfreak]

Re: Where to look for outboard model #?

Ok got the flywheel torqued down, didn't set the timing yet, I decided to try a different powerpack from a 73 johnson that had a blown powerhead that a guy gave to me along time ago (there is story to tell about it later). The powerpacks have the same part number from 73-77, as well as the coils, and the stators, and maybe more stuff I don't know. Man I wish I hadn't sold the lower unit off it.

Anyway with the other power pack on it, new plugs, and 1 new coil, I got it to pop off a little bit. I screwed the timing in and that seemed to help. Now I'm playing around with a kinked fuel line, an old crusty vacuum line for the fuel pump, and if I can get a sustained run for more than 3 seconds then I'll mess around with verifying timing.

 

[MRneatfreak]

Re: Where to look for outboard model #?

Ok I got a newb question here. Its been two years and I can't remember where water is supposed to run out when the muffs are on? Does it come out the two holes in the mid unit? Im still working on getting it to chug for more than 3 seconds, so if the impeller is shot it shouldn't overheat.

I thought I remembered my old 115 Force running water out of the center hole in the propeller? Anyway water isn't coming out anywhere except in the weepholes right next to the water inlet.

 

[MRneatfreak]

Re: Where to look for outboard model #?

Looked in the service manual and what I thought was the timing was actually the idle speed adjust I took a peek at the rubber hoses feeding water into the outside of the heads, and tore a rotten hose off, and found no water inside and lots of salt deposits, but luckily no blockage at the inlet.

I also found I could get the engine to run longer if I pumped the rubber inline bladder. So got a fuel delivery issue. Maybe this weekend I can check for vacuum coming from the engine to the fuel pump. Engine didn't sound too bad.

I saw oil leaking out the lower unit through the propeller, so I don't know what to think about that yet? Definetaly needs a new water pump kit. Will a simple propeller shaft end seal solve that problem, or are we talking a rebuild here? The oil was the dreaded grey color, not black. I will need to drain the oil and see what color oil comes out to be sure.

 

[emdsapmgr]

Re: Where to look for outboard model #?

The original fuel lines on that vintage engine were never made to handle today's ethanol fuels. The ethanol will eat the old rubber fuel line components. It is likely that some of the hoses may have been replaced over the years. You should replace all the remaining fuel lines, including the gas tank hose. I've seen black rubber bits loosen from the hoses, travel through the fuel system and lodge inside the jets of the carbs. That can cause lean running issues. The ethanol will also eat up the rubber bladder inside the fuel pump-probably why it is not pumping correctly. Any replacement fuel systen parts you purchase will be manufactured with 2012 ethanol resistant parts. The idle speed on that engine is adjusted by setting the idle timing. You don't adjust the carbs for idle speed. Idle speed can only be set when the boat is floating in the water and the engine is in forward gear. Set to 650-750 rpm. You can't set it on the trailer-there is no backpressure. It is normal for a black, oily substance to leak out of the prop. Usually this is unburned fuel running down the inside of the exhaust tube. I'd double check the oil inside the lower gearcase, though and make sure it is new, clear and filled to the upper vent port.

 

[MRneatfreak]

Re: Where to look for outboard model #?

The superceded (current) Bombardier coil number for your engine is 502888. Just under $ 50. Your local dealer can't order you a service manual. It's too old. They will direct you to purchase the original factory one from the original publisher, Ken Cook Co., in Milwaukee. You can give them a call to order over the phone, or contact them via the web: outboardbooks.com

I double checked on line for coils for this engine and found a different number that was suggested? 183-4632
From this link: http://www.seilermarine.com/rapair/johnson-evinrude-85-hp.php

p.s. It ran real good at the boat ramp in the water. I just want some piece of mind with new electronics.
Oh, and the service manual I got from Ebay is detailed for this engine. Something I ran into while in the water was the 20amp glass fuse was blowing as soon as a new one was put in. Obviously it was a short, but any ideas what? Haven't looked at the schematics yet.

 

[emdsapmgr]

Re: Where to look for outboard model #?

Torque the flywheel nut to 100-105 ft lbs.

 

[MRneatfreak]

Re: Where to look for outboard model #?

Yeah I torqued it to 104 ft lbs.