Where to start?

[CaptNewbie]

Hello all, new here but been a reader for quite some time now. I just inherited, by I I mean the wife but left up to her it'd be at the trash yard, a 1987 Four Winn's Horizon 190 with what I believe is a Mercruiser 3.7.

The last time it was registered/in water was around 2003. It's set under a pine tree beside a garage since then. There was a cover on it up to about 3 years ago. Since then it's set pretty much uncovered and filled with pine needles so it needs a new deck and furniture.

The engine seems to be stuck tight as I can't turn it by hand even a tiny little bit. I now next to nothing about marine engines but I've been fixing my own cars since I was about 15. I'd really like to save this from the trash heap and am wondering if anyone has any suggestions as to where to start.

 

[AShipShow]

Sitting uncovered for many years means its going to be a total gut job. Head over to the restoration section and start reading. First step is to determine whether or not you have the wallet and patient enough spouse to allow for a full restoration (floor, stringers, transom, bulkheads, seats, electrical, engine, etc)...

I would start by pulling the motor since its going to come out anyways. Once its out, you can drain the oil and inspect for water. If the oil looks good, theres a chance the motor isn't cracked and ruined. If its milky, start disassembling and looking for cracked block, head, etc...

If not milky, then start disassembling until you find what is siezed up... Going to probably need a full machine job to restore motor sitting that long, so you might want to take a long hard look in the mirror and consider finding a donor boat with a good motor and outdrive, specifically something newer... (4.3 or 5.7 are nice because they are GM motors and parts are readily available and cheap).

 

[Scott Danforth]

you have a mercruiser 3.7 (470 motor) in a rotten hull. cut your losses and find a different boat

do your research on the motor. the only good thing about a 470 is that they are heat exchanger cooled. as far as the floor goes, that is the last thing to rot on a boat. your stringers and transom long since rotted before that.

hull, interior and motor restoration will cost you about $5-7k. a good running boat could be purchased for that price and you can be on the water by tomorrow.

 

[wellcraft-classic210]

CaptNewbie


That's where a lot of us started out fixing cars --

It does seem no matter how handy you may be and how deep your pockets are -- -- your better off with another project -- Those motors are loaded with problems and boats of that age are often loaded with rotten wood and wet foam. Its almost certain you will never recover the coast and time.

Checkout the restoration section of this forum if you interested in seeing what others are doing and learning the differences on boats from cars

http://forums.iboats.com/forum/boat...n/boat-restoration-building-and-hull-repair--

 

[CaptNewbie]

I figured on being a complete gut. I was thinking it might be an interesting project for myself and the boys. I guess I was just curious as to what opinions on the engine were.

Would a non marine GM 4.3 be swappable or would a bunch of stuff have to be changed? And what outdrive would be recommended? Thanks for the info guys

 

[wellcraft-classic210]

Strongly suggest you look into the condition of the wood encased in fiberglass and read some posts in the restoration about other doing the same thing --rebuilding stringers, decks and transoms as a stating point.

If you get past that then

-Yes--

You can modify a 4.3 from a car -- but you would still need a lot of other parts to mount the engine and water cool the exhaust. ​​​​​​​

You would probably want the same type of drive (Alpha one is what you most likely have now ) with different gear ratio and marine engine setup from a donor boat to keep the costs and complexity down.

 

[CaptNewbie]

I will definitely have a look into the restoration section as it sounds like a bit bigger project than I originally thought. Maybe building my own boat from scratch would be less of a hassle lol. Thanks again guys

 

[wellcraft-classic210]

You may want to look through the guides in the how to section at the top of the restoration section
-- Great videos in #14 by the Infamous Frisco-Boater that can be fun to watch.

Nothing wrong with getting a project boat -- and fixing it up or restoring it can be fun for a DIY person
-- But its best to be selective and look at the total cost to decide if its worth the work. Sort of like picking a car for restoration -- Camaro vs a Vega // How much rust // What engine & hows it run & handle / etc

I bought a 26ft cruiser boat for 4k that need some TLC from sitting and a new interior -- I spent another 4k fixing it up. I can probably sell if for what I have into it and I have used it for 3 years now and got to enjoy the brand new interior. Luckily it was always kept dry inside and pretty well cared for by prior owners. Cruisers have a self bailing fiberglass deck in the cockpit-- That allowed me to avoid and major fiberglass / rotten wood issues. Older Boats with wood decks and carpet are more prone to rot and water logged foam. ( My ist boat was not such a success story but did offer some very good lessons )

Skills and equipment in: Electrical , Sewing , Welding , Wood and Fiberglass work all come into play along with understanding and performing Out-drive related maintenance.

The GM engines can be surprisingly reliable if the preventive maintenance is done.
-- Such as -- Draining the engine and manifolds in the winter is crucial to prevent cracked blocks and internal cooling water leaks , Keeping the Impeller in the out-drive working well is crucial for a steady water supply to prevent overheating and related damages.

 

[Lou C]

Honestly I think your wife had the right idea! Those who have been there, done that will wisely tell you if you want a boat to use this is not it. And won't be it, unless you put in several hundred hrs and thousands of dollars into it. Life is too short man, get boat you can run and enjoy. This is past saving.

 

[wellcraft-classic210]

You might be able to sell some parts off it --

 

[CaptNewbie]

So I'm about halfway through reading chevymaher's resto post about his 87 Horizon and wow, that is absolutely a much bigger job than I would have ever imagined. It's unbelievable how short a lifespan companies give boats. It makes a person not want to ever want to take the chance of buying a used one.

​​​​​I'm still on the fence about restoration. We're hopefully getting ready to buy a house, if the stupid underwriter ever stops being nit picky and greenlights the loan. I really like the layout of the Horizon and from what I've read the gas consumption is a bit easier on the wallet then some others. However the new house doesn't have a garage and the admiral and neighbors I don't think would enjoy having a stripped boat in the back yard.

​​​​​​Maybe I'll just take wellcraft's advice and sell some parts and look for a cruiser

 

[nola mike]

Go with everyone here. This isn't the boat. You can find my thread in the resto section if you want about me redoing my interior a couple of years ago. I had a soft spot on the floor and gutted the interior. I was very lucky that the stringers and transom weren't rotted--this was on a boat that was in great shape when I got it 10 years ago and that I've kept covered always. It cost me probably $2-3k, and a TON of time. Again, I only took out part of the floor. Materials get real expensive quickly. Upholstery gets VERY expensive. Time is priceless. Oh, and most of this stuff isn't enjoyable. Grinding fiberglass is miserable. I'd count on the engine needing a complete rebuild (or better yet a 4.3/5.7 upgrade). You do have a relatively rare 4bbl carb in there. Realistically, even done on the cheap you're looking at $5k. And even if you don't want a project boat, if it's old and cheap it will always be a project boat. You could part out the 3.7 easily and make a good bit of money: the carb and intake manifold are worth something (PM me if you decide to part it!), as is the exhaust manifold, maybe could get something for the coolant res, heat exchanger for sure, voltage regulator (if still there), alt conversion kit otherwise, outdrive (if not locked up), trailer. That's an easy $1k towards your next project...
Personally, if I wanted a project, I'd look for a pristine cosmetic boat with a cracked block.

 

[Scott06]

" Personally, if I wanted a project, I'd look for a pristine cosmetic boat with a cracked block."

X2 on that , three years ago I repowered a sea ray 200 sport that PO didn't winterize. Boat only had 38 hrs on it, interior was mint was a fun project, all mechanical work, been a ton of fun for the family since then and saved me a couple thousand vs buying similar condition with workers no engine.

 

[CaptNewbie]

OK, I'm convinced, mostly because the Admiral all but ordered me to retire the "old hunk of junk" but also because I'm not one to completely ignore the advice of experience. I'll look for something structurally and cosmetically sound, might be easier to gently coax the Admiral into the idea of having a boat.

Thanks again guys for the eye opener, especially wellcraft cause I am still floored at how easily boats can get ruined. I'll never look at used ones the same again.

Well, if anyone is in northwest central Ohio and are looking for merc 3.7 or outdrive parts hit me up.

nola-mike, pm sent

 

[TurtleTamer]

I'll look for something structurally and cosmetically sound, might be easier to gently coax the Admiral into the idea of having a boat.

"But honey, if I have to get rid of this boat, I'll have to replace it with one we can use..."

 

[H20Rat]

Thanks again guys for the eye opener, especially wellcraft cause I am still floored at how easily boats can get ruined. I'll never look at used ones the same again.

Boats are actually pretty sturdy, but often owners have the attitude of 'its a boat, it is meant to get wet'. A typical boat left uncovered for a couple years has almost a 100% chance of major structural damage. Water is meant to be on the outside, not the inside. Didn't even need to see pics to know the floor and transom were rotten.

Anyway, you are making a good choice. As someone else mentioned, if you want a more achievable project, find a cracked block boat at a good price. Swapping like-for-like engines is a fraction of the work of a resto! (if you haven't ever done fiberglass work, I wouldn't wish that on my worse enemy... Used to build fiberglass speaker boxes, never, ever again.)

 

[CaptNewbie]

"But honey, if I have to get rid of this boat, I'll have to replace it with one we can use..."

Oh yeah, that'd work lol. I can see it now, through the heavy torrential downpour from my not so comfy bed in the rotted out boat hull.

I still think it would be an interesting venture to try my hand at, if I could only convince the Admiral. Best to not poke too hard tho