Which F.F. would you buy, do you have?

[MichaelMullis]

I will be getting a new FF soon and am looking for userers thoughts.I have narrowed the choices down to 8 models so far, pricing will narrow more.<br />Humminbird models <br />Matrix 37 T/M appr. $280.00<br />640x320 pix. gps ready<br />sonar coverage 1@ 20*, 1@ 60*, 2 @ 45*<br />watts 4000 p to p<br /><br />Matrix 67 T/M appr. $475.00<br />Combo unit ff/gps<br />640x320 pix<br />sonar cover. 20* and 60*<br />watts 4000 p to p<br /><br />Eagle Models<br />FishElite 500c<br />320x240 pix<br />sonar 60*<br />watts 1500 p to p<br /><br />FishElite 480<br />480x480 pix<br />sonar 60*<br />watts 60* p to p<br /><br />FishElite 320<br />320x320 pix<br />sonar 60*<br />watts 1500 p to p<br /><br />FishMark 500c<br />320x240 pix<br />sonar 60*<br />watts 1500 p to p<br /><br />FishMark 480<br />480x480 pix<br />sonar 60 *<br />watts 1500 p to p<br /><br />FishMark 320 appr. $170.00<br />320x320 pix<br />sonar 60*<br />watts 1500 p to p<br /><br />I know that this is turning into a book ,but I wanted to include as much info as I could. All of my fishing is 200' or less, usually 20' to 60'.I have been told that I can spend as much as 700.00 for ff and gps, or combo unit.I think that the important features would be Pixels,Sonar coverage, and power, but need other opinions. I am not leaning either way right now, just gathering info.<br />Thanks <br />Michael

 

[jtexas]

Re: Which F.F. would you buy, do you have?

I fish lakes, usually 1 to 60 ft or so.<br /><br />I have the under $100 humminbird right now and despite what a lot of folks say, it's reliable & accurate, just not enough pixels.<br /><br />Did a little research & got recommendations from a couple fishing guides, and the Eagle fishmark 320 is on my Christmas list. Best value for the money under $200. GPS would be fun but a luxury for me right now. IMHO vertical pixels is the #1 consideration.

 

[Luna Sea]

Re: Which F.F. would you buy, do you have?

You may want to add to that list.......<br /><br /> fishfinders under $400 from Powerboat Reports

 

[ThomWV]

Re: Which F.F. would you buy, do you have?

I would definitly look at the small Furunos if I were you, the 4100 and the 6100. They are certainly not only for salt water and not only for shallow water either. If you are used to the usual fresh water fare, the Lowrances, Eagles, Humminbirds, stuff like that, you will be very pleasantly suprised.<br /><br />I use a Furuno 582L coupled with an Airmar M260 transudcer (designed for and mounted in the hull) as well as a separate one of their bronze thru-hull speed and temperature sensors. Alltogether they make a very effective combination.<br /><br />Thom

 

[18rabbit]

Re: Which F.F. would you buy, do you have?

I agree with Thom’s suggestion to look at Furuno. Much higher quality. Only issue might be space…will a Furuno fit on your console? Personally, I’d make it fit.

 

[steve n carol]

Re: Which F.F. would you buy, do you have?

A few years ago I had a Hunningbird unit from Sam Waltons store. I was about $300. good color good pixels and a few more bells and whistles. The unit wound up to become a depth finder and warning, again, depth finder, device. <br />My next one will NOT have a "scrolling" screen. <br />anchored out onenight in a lagoon about 12' deep, I am looking at the moon and the FF. here's this fish below the boat, never moves, The screen refreshes every few seconds. The fish never moves. Probably wasn't a fish at all. The screen that scrolls gives an inaccurate discription of just what is below you and makew you think submerged items are moving, even if the boat isn't...just my opnion...sl

 

[ThomWV]

Re: Which F.F. would you buy, do you have?

In all the years I have been around fishing boats I have never heard that description of a fish finder's display before. I am not even sure to this very moment that I understand what it is you were trying to describe.<br /><br />A stationary fish under the boat would appear as a straight line, as would any suspended object over time. If the fish were to leave by swimming away horizontally it would be depicted on the screen as descending slowly and then flickering off as it moved outside of the useful width of range of the transducer.<br /><br />Any fish moving through what is called the "cone" would begin being displayed low, the display would then show the lit up pixels moving up and over into an arch. A slightly stronger return echo (easily seen with a color machine) will exist at the top of the arch. The arch will drop off as the fish leaves the cone. Its really that simple. Bottom is discernable as the first really hard structure (thermoclines will lurk above but be faint (light green if you have color) though very noticable, particularly if you are the owner of a CRT machine (almost dinosaurs these days but great machines).<br /><br />What I really didn't understand is what you meant by the screen draw rate. The refresh rate on the screen is quality machines is such that in shallow water (where the pulse repititon rate is greatest and the pulse duration is shortest in those quality machines where these parameters are variable) the flow of picture across screen is essentiall seamless. In deeper water there is no choice but slow down the screen advance but even there you should still be looking at something on the order of 300~500 feet of water before that becomes an issue and to tell the truth I don't find it bothersom until after we pass over about 1,000 feet depth and it really slows down.<br /><br />So all in all I'm not too sure I understand the advice you are trying to give. It appeared to be that you said that todays fish finders simply do not work. That is simply not true. Any modern good quality machine of suitable power will give a reliable picture of bottom and suspended objects, fish or otherwise. Learning to interpret the picture and understand a bit of what's going on below the fish finder is the owner's responsibility, but its not difficult.<br /><br />Thom

 

[Boatist]

Re: Which F.F. would you buy, do you have?

BaitKiller<br />I like Lowrance products and Eagle is made by same company. Eagle often the same unit with less power. Vertical Resolution is the important pixel count. Horz resolution really is just how long the image stays on the screen. For water 60 feet or less 320 is fine and 1500 watts peak to peak is fine. When looking at you depth finder always remember the right most pixel is what is under the boat now. Anything to the left of the right most pixel is what was under the cone angle before. The farther to the left the older the return is.<br /><br />If you were to go deeper then vertical resolution becomes more inportant. Also power very important in deeper water and a must in Salt water.<br /><br />One thing I do not like about Eagle is their misleading statment that they can see fish up to 60 degrees. The 200khz transducer that they are useing have a 20 degree cone angle just like all the other brands. Transducer cone angle is rated at the -3db half power point. That is the industry standard. Yes if you rate the cone angel at the -10db point all transducer will be near 60 degrees, but the useful range is really 20 degrees. If you do not belive this go to their accessory site and try and find a 60 degree 200khz transducer. Anyway just so you know when they say up to 60 degrees they really mean 20 degrees.<br /><br />If you fish with downriggers you may want to get a dual frequency unit where they have 50khz transducer that have a 37 to 45 degree actual cone angel. This way you can see your downrigger ball when trolling.<br /><br />When fishing the bottom a wider cone angle does not always mean you will see more fish. If you are fishing a flat bottom with no slopes, drop off or big rocks then a wider cone angel will allow you to see more fish. However if you are fishing a slope, a big drop off in a river channel or very uneven bottom then a wider cone angle you will see fewer bottom fish.<br /><br />I disagree with Thom on Furuno for fishing shallow water. Furuno is top of the line for deep saltwater and a great product. However fishing for bass in the auto mode and fishing structure, or dropoffs I do not like the way it changes scale. When it changes scale the image jumps to the new scale for new return coming in. It makes your screen look like you went over a 20 foot drop off when you actual depth change was 1 foot. If your fishing a shore line it may jump to a deeper depth then a few second later jump back to the shallower depth and then deeper again. When it does that very diffacult to see fish or structure. Now you can put it in manual mode and set the depth deeper and it will work good but for most auto mode works best.<br /><br />Lowrance and Eagle also change scales but the way they change they move the entire image up or down at the same time so you can see the actual change in depth or fish and structures.<br /><br />Good luck hope you find what you are looking for. You may want to go to lowrance's and go thru their tutorial.<br /><br /> http://www.lowrance.com/Tutorials/Sonar/sonar_tutorial_01.asp

 

[ThomWV]

Re: Which F.F. would you buy, do you have?

Boatist,<br /><br />I understand what you mean when you say it jumps scale. However unlike most depth finders you can set your own depth ranges with all Furuno models and stop it from doing that. If you fish in water that is typically 10 feet deep with drop offs of a couple of feet here or there then just set one range with a maximum depth of 15 or 20 feet or whatever other top and bottom end (the minimum depth of a range is determined by what you set the maximum depth of the range just before it) of the scal you want to use. The machine will never jump on you again and you can refine your range settings to maximize useful viewing area of the screen.<br /><br />There is another much more imporant aspect to user-defined range scales, and once again this is tied to other featrues that all Furuno models have but that most of the cheaper 'fresh water' fish finder manufacturers don't. The pulse repitition rate and the pulse duration are both variable and tied to the range scale in use at the moment. Because the screen advance rate is generally a function of a combination of the repitition rate and the duration what you can do is set range scales just below the trigger points for slower rates or longer durations (the trigger points can be figured out from the owner's manual's specifications page as well as informaton given on the product borchures).<br /><br />At any rate having the ability to fine tune those range scales is one of the things you can use to make your Furuno a much much better fish finder.

 

[MichaelMullis]

Re: Which F.F. would you buy, do you have?

Thanks for info everyone. I now use a Eagle ultra classic that I have had for 10 years, and I like it, but pixs are only 160x160 and I want to get more. I am leaning towards the Humminbird Matrix 37, or 67 but have some qeustions about the sonar coverage.The 37 lists sonar coverage as 1 20*, 1 60* , and 2 45* with freq. of 200/83/455 KHZ. How does this relate to the 67 which has20* and 60* at 200/83 KHZ. I also like the eagle 320 and 420 but they have less power according to specs. 90% of my fishing is 60' or less in a lake that reaches 170' deep. This is on a toon, so no salt water.

 

[Boatist]

Re: Which F.F. would you buy, do you have?

Thom<br />I do not disagree with anything you said. The upper level Lowrance units also can adjust pulse rate with the scroll speed button and the pulse duration with a second or third level menu setting. Also as I said in my post you can set the depth in manual mode and Furuno will not change depth, but if you fishing 10 feet and not catching fish so go out to 30 you have to readjust. I can not tell you how many people I have seen who thought there depthfinder was not working because they put in in manual mode. Then they set the depth to 10 feet then went out on the lake and did not see bottom or a fish all day. They turn the sensitivity so low could not see a whale. <br /><br />One thing I do once a year is be a offical spotter on a Kids under 12 Bass and Trout fishing tournament. Adult on the boats are not allowed to fish only kids so they need lots of spotter to keep people honest. Tough job as do not want to disqualify any Kid but then do not want a Kid who caught the most fish to loose because some adult filled a live well with fish he caught. I find it best to let team see you watching. Anyway after the weigh in they have a BarBaque and free food for spotters. They also usually have a well known Pro Bass Fisherman giving lessons on how to use their depth finders. I and some other other help the people set their units up and show then the basics on their boat out on the water. I would say 50 percent of the units the people have never seen the bottom or a fish because they have put the unit in manual and adjusted every control with out ever reading their manual. Most of the time have to go back to factory defaults and then show them the basics. This is why I say automatic works best for most.<br /><br />I am still useing a 1981 Lowrance unit because of a Feature that no new units have. When they went to the menu systems so people would not have to read their books no one has this feature any more. It was called bottom track and works great. You could set it at the dock for bottom and up what ever distance you want. I would use bottom and up 30 or 40 feet and not touch it all day. Do not really need it right now as can only fish bottom fish down to 120 feet. Before would fish the Slopes at Cordell banks where the water runs form 200 feet to 3000.

 

[Boatist]

Re: Which F.F. would you buy, do you have?

BaitKiller<br />I will say in the past humminbirds had a lot of trouble seeing bottom at any planing speeds. Since the Matrix has come out have not really seen that problem. I know nothing about the units so will only talk about Frequency. <br /><br />In general a higher frequency give you better target seperation but will not go as deep. Standard for many brands has been 200Khz and 50Khz. The 50 khz was a must for deep salt water. The 200 khz even with lots of power and a narrow cone angel not good much over 400 feet in salt water.<br /><br />200 khz units you can see a sturgeon or catfish laying on the bottom and sometimes some seperation between the fish and the bottom. Also a school of baitfish you will see lots of indivial fish.<br /><br />50 khz units hard to see a sturgeon or catfish laying on the bottom, it just looks like part of the bottom. Bait fish look like a big black ball or like a big bushy tree.

 

[bullgator99]

Re: Which F.F. would you buy, do you have?

Baitkiller:<br /><br />Humminbird just isn't the favorite brand of alot of people who post here. I can't argue with anyone about their own opinion, but I can tell you I just put a Matrix 37 on my boat and it performs very well.<br /><br />Specifically I have no problems seeing bottom detail up to 40 mph, which is about all my boat can do.<br /><br />The "quad beam" transducer supposedly has 90 degree coverage. The 200/83 kHz dual beam looks straight down, and the 455 kHz beams look off to the sides (I believe about 45 degrees each way). You can select several different ways to display the data.<br /><br />I'm happy with this unit so far.<br /><br />Good luck with your decision.<br /><br />--------------------------------------<br />99 Four Winns Horizon 170 F&S

 

[BillP]

Re: Which F.F. would you buy, do you have?

I've owned Eagles, Lowrances and oneHummingbird...my biggest beef with Hummingbird is the aluminum electrical connectors on the plug-in mount. They can vaporize in a year or two around salt water IF you don't use diaelectric grease or whatever...at least mine did and the mount costs almost as much to replace as the depthfinder. None of the others have done that or had electrical problems. Eagle/Lowrance is my favorite because they have the easiest numbers to read.<br /><br />There is ONE reason I wouldn't buy a Furuno...the "non glare" screen reflects a LOT of bright light compared to the clear screen units...Garmin, Eagle, Hummingbird. The newest and latest model Furuno I was using last weekend was near impossible to read unless I was directly in front of the screen. From the side you couldn't see the markings because it reflected the bright white cushion and deck color. This was mounted in a 25'cc with a mapping Garmin gps mounted next to it. The Garmin's screen was easy to read no matter where I was standing or what the sunlight. I'm in the market for a new depthfinder and Furuno is off my short list now and Garmin, Eagle and Lowrance still on it.

 

[MichaelMullis]

Re: Which F.F. would you buy, do you have?

Thanks for input guys. I have narrowed the selection down to the matrix 37 or 67 and the Eagle 320 or 420. Will narrow down some more as time goes by, I am looking for people at the lake that have these to get some hands on.<br />Thanks <br />Michael

 

[BillP]

Re: Which F.F. would you buy, do you have?

Michael,<br />Check Eaglesonar.com for a downloaded simulator of the unit you like. You can operate it without buying first. I tried the Cuda240 and was impressed. All mfgs should do this.

 

[Boatist]

Re: Which F.F. would you buy, do you have?

I agree with BillP about their simulators you can download for free. I have a Garmin GPSMAP76 but use the free Lowrance LCX-104C simulator to map all my waypoints on my home computer for free. Great way to see you waypoints displayed on a large sreen.<br /><br />The simulator will let you try everything just like you were on the water. Only difference is you use your mouse to hit the button instead of your finger.<br /><br />If you had time I would suggest you wait and go to one of the big Bass tournaments and watch a way in. Durning the wayin do not worry about the fish but what type Depth Finder each boat has. You might even be able to tell on TV if you watch close as long as it is not a tournament that provides all the boats. These guys earn money by useing their depthfinders. Some may have a sponsor of a depthfinder brand but they are easy to tell as it will be on their shirts.<br /><br />Another thing I would suggest is to go to the best fishing speciality store in your area. Somewhere where they sell most of the brands. Go tell them how you will use it and ask what they reccommend and why. Do not tell then what you are thinking about as many will take off on any brand you mention to try and make the sell.

 

[whiteman]

Re: Which F.F. would you buy, do you have?

Resolution, resolution, resolution!<br /><br />Buy as many pixels as you can afford. Sounds like you might also want dual frequency as a bit of a toy. Other than that, keep it simple as if you've got time to fiddle with other stuff, you're not fishing!<br /><br />If it were me I'd grab a Lowrance X125 or Eagle SeaFinder 480DF.

 

[coby-5]

Re: Which F.F. would you buy, do you have?

The new humminbird matrix 47 3D will be out around Feb. check there site to see specs<br />definately worth the wait

 

[Stumpknocker]

Re: Which F.F. would you buy, do you have?

I was a guest last weekend on a boat with a Furuno 528 color FF. It was mounted inside a cabinet to reduce glare. Even so... I could only see it straight on. From the sides forget it.