Which Gasket, 2 or 4 Slot?

jtw

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I just finished replacing the one piece manifolds on our 4.3 Mercruiser, with a 2 piece system. We have a sea water cooling system. The kit came with 2 types of gaskets for putting between the manifold and 4" elbow, some with 2 slots for water flow, and some with 4. I called the manufacturer, and they said to use the one with 2 slots. After I installed one side, I noticed that the shop manual said to use gaskets with 4 slots. Which one is right?
 

Don S

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Re: Which Gasket, 2 or 4 Slot?

I guess the first question to ask is which system did you use? Aftermarket or OEM? Raw or closed cooled?
 

jtw

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Re: Which Gasket, 2 or 4 Slot?

GLM, aluminum, open cooling system. I'm sure the manifolds will be warmer to the touch with the '2 opening' gaskets. But, do folks have experience showing the engine will over heat? The boat is still parked out front. Planning to put it back in the water this evening.
 

45Auto

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Re: Which Gasket, 2 or 4 Slot?

Guess I'll be re-torquing the one I pulled and re-installed yesterday to get the valve cover off. Just installed it to 25 ft-lb, per the manual. Never knew about that bulletin.

Thanks Don!
 

jtw

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Re: Which Gasket, 2 or 4 Slot?

Thanks, Don!

Crap!!! I guess I'll have to spend a few hours changing those things out. All of my raw water goes to the 90 at the bottom of the manifold. The GLM catalog CLEARLY shows that I should use the ones with 2 slots.

I'm guessing the TSB was issued to resolve overheating problems. Is that what I would see if I left the 2 slot gaskets on? Any chance the water channels are bigger on the GLM's than on the OEM's?
 

Don S

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Re: Which Gasket, 2 or 4 Slot?

I don't know anything about GLM manifolds, like I said, the bulletin is for Mercruiser. If GLM states they want you to use the 2 sloted gasket, then use the 2 slot.
The 2 slots would slow the water flow down and allow more heat transfer. With 4 slots, the water may go in and out too fast and not transferring the heat to the water.
 

jtw

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Re: Which Gasket, 2 or 4 Slot?

That's exactly what the GLM tech told me. Although, I didn't have the TSB info when I spoke with him. If the engine messes up, they'll surely be hearing from me. But, I guess if their info was bad, and somebody had overheated, GLM would have heard.
 

John_S

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Re: Which Gasket, 2 or 4 Slot?

The 2 slots would slow the water flow down and allow more heat transfer. With 4 slots, the water may go in and out too fast and not transferring the heat to the water.

When I swapped mine from 2 slots - original factory, to four slots when I changed my heads, the elbows and exhaust manifolds felt cooler to the touch. This was checking them at the lake after coming back, idling at the dock. Also, if you think about it, when the engine thermostat is stuck open (more flow) the engine runs cooler.
 

Don S

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Re: Which Gasket, 2 or 4 Slot?

That's exactly what I mean. With the 4 slotted gasket the manifolds will feel hotter. But the inner part of the manifold where the hot exhaust is, may be a lot cooler. With the outside feeling cooler, it's because the water is going by so fast it's not absorbing the heat from the inner liner of the manifold.
Same with the engine. Stuck open or no thermstat only makes the water flow faster and not absorb as much heat from the hottest parts of the engine.
 

John_S

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Re: Which Gasket, 2 or 4 Slot?

I think reducing the restriction, by increasing the area by double, will actually lower the water pressure, hence the speed of the water. I didn't put a thermocouple on the inside, can only comment on the outside "feel" temp.
 

jtw

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Re: Which Gasket, 2 or 4 Slot?

I think one of you is breaking a law (of thermodynamics). 4 slots = more flow, and, since the water jacket is on the outside, the manifolds should be cooler to the touch. Easy way to figure this out is to think of an extreme situation. If the flow of water was infinitely large, the temperature of the water would barely go up at all. If water flow were stopped, the water temperature would equal the gas temperature.
 

Apollo75

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Re: Which Gasket, 2 or 4 Slot?

If the cooling system is closed and sucking no air that could create air pockets --- I would go with the increased flow ---- thermostat will do the rest.

"BTW, For the inside heat transfer coefficient (liquid ONLY), ~(0.023*Re^0.8*Pr^0.66)*(k/Dh) where Re = Reynolds number, Pr = Prandtl Number, k = Thermal Conductivity (of coolant), Dh = passage hydraulic diameter (passage diameter if passage geometry is tubular)."

Flow can be slowed as long as it does not boil ---> turn to steam.

OFM
 

Apollo75

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Re: Which Gasket, 2 or 4 Slot?

For a boat : This may apply also. :eek:

"Surface coatings can build on heat transfer surfaces during heat exchanger operation due to fouling. These add extra thermal resistance to the wall and may noticeably decrease the overall heat transfer coefficient and thus performance. (Fouling can also cause other problems.)

The additional thermal resistance due to fouling can be found by comparing the overall heat transfer coefficient determined from laboratory readings with calculations based on theoretical correlations. They can also be evaluated from the development of the overall heat transfer coefficient with time (assuming the heat exchanger operates under otherwise identical conditions). This is commonly applied in practice, e.g.[6]. The following relationship is often used:

\frac{1}{U_{exp}} = \frac{1}{U_{pre}}+R_f

where:

Uexp = overall heat transfer coefficient based on experimental data for the heat exchanger in the "fouled" state, \frac{W}{m^2K}
Upre = overall heat transfer coefficient based on calculated or measured ("clean heat exchanger") data, \frac{W}{m^2K}
Rf = thermal resistance due to fouling, \frac{m^2K}{W} "


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat_transfer_coefficient

We can get out he calculator or keep the inside of things clean. :p


OFM
 

jtw

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Re: Which Gasket, 2 or 4 Slot?

Again, this is an open sea water system. Restricting the flow too much will cause the engine to overheat. I just can't figure out what the problem would be with having too much flow. Does anyone with a 4.3 Mercruiser have any experience with the 2 hole gasket causing overheating?

The previous post is for heat transfer coefficient. I'm more worried about heat transfer rate, which would be calculated using the difference in temperature between the exhaust gas and the water. As the water temperature gets higher, the heat transfer goes down. Big temperature difference makes more of a 'driving force' to move heat from the gas to the liquid.
 

Apollo75

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Re: Which Gasket, 2 or 4 Slot?

The transfer rate can be calculated --- however --- engineers have already done that --- I would go with the 4-hole.

It is a very turbulent flow with water side transfer coefficients and the thickness of the metal and the temperature difference between the two transfer mediums ---- I would just pick a gasket :D

Here is a list of thermal conductivity for different material :

http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/thermal-conductivity-d_429.html



OFM
 

jtw

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Re: Which Gasket, 2 or 4 Slot?

Folks, I'm really sorry it got this complicated, with equations and whatnot. I think everyone can agree that if you restrict coolant flow too much, the engine will overheat. But what I can't figure out is what would happen if you were supposed to use the one with 2 slots, but instead, used the unrestricted 4 slot gasket. Would the engine not be able to et up to temperature? Would water flow bypass the engine block, and just go straight out through the exhaust?
 

Don S

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Re: Which Gasket, 2 or 4 Slot?

You bought GLM manifolds and risers. Why is it you can't use their advise on which gaskets to use.
The Service bulletin I posted the link to was for cast iron manifolds and risers. You have aluminum. GLM made them and recommends which type of gaskets to use.
What is the big deal with using what the manufacture of the product recommends??????????????????

I'm really sorry it got this complicated, with equations and whatnot.

Forget all the gibberish posted by apollo he seems to have a bit of a problem with reality.
 

jtw

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Re: Which Gasket, 2 or 4 Slot?

They also recommend the 2 slot gasket for their cast iron kit. I replaced these things in order to prevent a catastrophic engine failure. That would be too harsh to CAUSE an engine problem because it didn't get done right. I'd never be able to live that one down!

So, what IS the potential problem of having too much water flow?
 

Apollo75

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Re: Which Gasket, 2 or 4 Slot?

Since you feed the water from below and it has to go up and exit a riser --- there is nothing I can think of but a cooler system. :D

OFM
 
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