Which sealant/adhesive is best ?

[intrepidvoyager]

The volvo manual page 51 says use VP gasket sealant for the drive shaft bellows ....isn?t VP gasket sealant the same as Permatex aviation or Perfect Seal or the Evinrude equivalent.
What about using real gasket adhesive like Quicksilver rubber and gasket adhesive for the bellows ?

Also the VP manual says to apply 3M adhesive sealant to water passage to gearcase gasket and upper gear case top cover gasket ...........do they mean 5200 or what ? Why not coat the whole mating area with Perfect Seal to also prevent any corrosion issues ?

Also they say to coat the dipstick threads with gasket sealant .....is this really necessary ...I don?t think the leg even comes that way from the factory ..... so that would mean every time you check the gear lube level you got to re coat the threads ?

Sorry for all the questions but ?just want to get it right the first time? ....hmmm , where have I heard that before ....

 

[PiratePast40]

Re: Which sealant/adhesive is best ?

The issue of bellows adhesive has been beat up pretty bad so there's plenty of other threads on that topic. As far as the threads on the dipstick, think of it as an opening into the drive that will be under water. If you've taken the time to make sure everything is sealed well and you've done pressure and vacuum tests, do you really want to compromise the integrity again?

 

[intrepidvoyager]

Re: Which sealant/adhesive is best ?

no but my buddy who i am helping out here has run an SX for 6 years and never used sealant on the dipstick and is out fishing 3 times a week and checks his lube every time he comes in so the dipstick has been in and out over 500 times with no issues ...

So now i'm telling him ...use sealant ..... tough sell .....but at least he's reading the manual now ...

ANYWAY .... main question now is .......what does volvo mean when they say " USE 3 M SEALANT " ... the most popular marine 3M sealant is 5800, but no where in the spec sheet for 5800 does it say anything about sealing gaskets ...

 

[Don S]

Re: Which sealant/adhesive is best ?

Volvo doesn't recommend sealer on any bellows, or the dipstick. The oring on the dipstick is the seal, not the threads.

what does volvo mean when they say " USE 3 M SEALANT " ...

Where are you reading this ?????? Please don't say Seloc or Clymers

 

[dakine]

Re: Which sealant/adhesive is best ?

If, for any reason, you should want to glue rubber to metal or almost anything else....this is the shiznit.

 

[intrepidvoyager]

Re: Which sealant/adhesive is best ?

Hey Don......

its in the volvo on page one four three

but doubt at your peril

the oracle by the sea

.............................

thanks again for the spider info ...the're on there way from Oahu ..Yahooo !!

 

[intrepidvoyager]

Re: Which sealant/adhesive is best ?

Re use 3M sealant


its all over the Volvo manual virtually anytime a rubber gasket is mentioned ....

 

[Don S]

Re: Which sealant/adhesive is best ?

Ok, I did find it, it's the Volvo Drive manual for the SX.
To be honest, I have no idea what it is, but it's NOT Perfect Seal. Below is the chart from the manual you was referring to.
Perfect seal is the same thing as the last section. Gasket sealing compound.
My guess is the 3M Adheisive is a rubber contact cement. like the Merc bellows adhesive. It's ony use, is to hold things in place, not to seal. That is why they call it adhesive, not sealer.

 

[dakine]

Re: Which sealant/adhesive is best ?

Don S.

3M 1300 gasket adhesive sealant is a very strong and inert "rubber cement" that is used throughout the refining and chemical industry to both seal gaskets and hold them in place during assembly.
It is great stuff but don't use it in a situation where you can't use a puller to seperate the parts on disassembly.
Consider it the opposite of non hardening permatex or similar stuff.

I think the Volvo manual suffers some in translation from the Sweedish it was originally written in.

Some of their adhesive and sealant recommendations make no sense to me.

 

[Don S]

Re: Which sealant/adhesive is best ?

3M 1300 gasket adhesive sealant is a very strong and inert "rubber cement"

That's not the one he is referring to, the one just above it in my picture is the one we don't know what is.

I think the Volvo manual suffers some in translation from the Sweedish it was originally written in.

Actually, it's a holdover from OMC. When Volvo and OMC went into the joint venture together, the OMC manual format stuck, and is still basically the same. The 93 and earlier Volvo manuals were a waste. They should have been called an engine overhaul manual, and a drive overhaul manual because very little else was covered at all.
I just looked at the OMC drive manual for the JV model. It also list "3M Adhesive" for the water seal, it also lists the 1300 as something different.

 

[intrepidvoyager]

Re: Which sealant/adhesive is best ?

So gentleman ...what I gather from this is .....NOT to use perfect seal or ev/john gasket sealing compound or permatex aviation form a gasket for the rubber water passage or rubber cover gasket on the SX upper gear housing .....can you suggest what should be used that is available from NAPA ...the VP guy here on Kauai stocks nada ...also he's the one who banged the leg up and down trying to release it and put a small crack in the exahust inlet housing on the bottom of the gimble housing so i am not taking any advise from him on what to use.. but there is a honda marine guy here with some stuff.

As per Don's instructions i used a rubber adhesive ...3M SUPER WEATHERSTRIP ADHESIVE ...and it worked great to hold the gimble housing rubber rope style gasket in place during instal .... nothing on the face against the transom. I have used this stuff before and as it bonds rubber to rubber i had no worries about the joint in the gasket at the top of the housing. this stuff also sticks tenaciously to metals and glass.

So on to the bellows ..... as we won't get the new universals till tuesday we still have time to re do the drive shaft bellows ..... I used ev/ john gasket sealing compound as PS not available here but same stuff i think ...anyway i have had no issues with using this type of sealant before but on advise of you guys i got a tube of bellows gasket adhesive anyway

I think i know what you are going to say ....if so pls just post this quote i have seen somewhere before in reply

thanks.

?Why is there never enough time to do it right the first time,
But always enough time to do it again? ........ USE THE ADHESIVE !!!

 

[Don S]

Re: Which sealant/adhesive is best ?

I use the Merc bellows adhesive. WHY you may ask, because it's handy and we use a lot of Merc stuff here.

 

[Fun Times]

Re: Which sealant/adhesive is best ?

I like to use gasgacinch gasket sealer (The can with the girl on it,The brush at the end makes it easy to use. Do a Google search on it, It should show you the can in a photo, That is if this link does not work for you. http://www.google.com/products?sour...esult_group&ct=image&resnum=3&ved=0CB4QzAMwAg

 

[intrepidvoyager]

Re: Which sealant/adhesive is best ?

OK ...thanks ...got it ....i'll replace the bellows gasket sealing compound with bellows adhesive ...... easy job as the leg is not back on till we get the universals.

Now as to the biz about 3M sealant ......you'll get a laugh out of this ... I met a guy on holiday here from the mid west ...owns a VP service shop ..I asked him ...he said " if VP does not specify the type of sealant you can use any old 3M sealant " I didn't argue with the guy cause the wives were there.
But later in the conversation he mentioned that their big problem is they get a lot of comebacks .....LOL .....i wonder why .....

Anyway maybe what VP is trying to imply is that the 3M sealant is just there to hold say the water passage rubber o profile gasket in place as its going on vertically and that like in other places o profile rubber gaskets such as o rings do not otherwise require any sealant.

So in effect any sealant will do to hold in place during assembly .

As in our case we have a bit of creeping corrosion on the mating surface of the upper gear case and its cover I like the idea of sealing the entire mating surface with the ev/john gasket sealing compound to keep any corrosion away from the gasket mating area ...in the process the rubber gasket will get coated too.

This is not too improve the sealing of the flat rubber gasket but to stop any water getting in the seam between the cover and the housing mating surfaces.

What do you think ?????

Thanks

Think the ev/john stuff we have PN 508235 is the same as Perfect Seal which we can't get here.

 

[Don S]

Re: Which sealant/adhesive is best ?

Now as to the biz about 3M sealant ......you'll get a laugh out of this

This is getting crazy ................. it's an ADHESIVE, not a sealant

Adhesive means a GLUE, not a sealant.

They use GLUE aka ADHESIVE to hold the water passage ring in place on a vertical surface till the drive is installed.
They use the same GLUE to hold the big seal ring in the groove of the transom sheild so it doesn't fall out. Same with that cover over the pivot pin.
It's not used to seal anything, that is why it's not called a

 

[intrepidvoyager]

Re: Which sealant/adhesive is best ?

OK Don .....with all due respect this is not getting crazy .....you would not believe the problems here with salt spray corrosion ....if i had not seen this myself i would not believe !!!

every time R goes out for 4 hours on the north coast of Kauai the blocks on his twin honda 90?s are covered in salt. Every 2 trips one of his helpers has to pull the covers and wash the blocks down with saltaway. Its crazy !!!

On inboards that have eng compartment ventilators .....the ventilator screens have got to be cleaned almost daily to get rid of salt spray or the engine starts starving for air. Here you have open ocean conditions, salt spray everywhere and very high humidity.

Oil pans and steel gas tanks corrode out on a regular basis here ..... any car on this island that is
over ten years old has rust spots all over it.

SO ...what I am talking about is NOT sealing / adhering the gasket in..... but rather sealing corrosion out !

Just as you say the threads on the dip stick do not require sealant because the o ring is the seal, the same applies i think to the water passage o profile gasket ...it does not need sealant ..just something to hold it in place during assembly.

But that is NOT what i am talking about ....I am talking about keeping corrosion away from the gasket mating surfaces in the same way that Perfect Seal is used on the leg studs so in 2 years you can get the leg off without it being seized onto the studs.

in the meantime I see no reason not to use perfect seal anywhere corrosion on mating surfaces is an issue .....for sure we will load up the 6 leg studs with lots of Perfect Seal.

maybe some member from the tropics can shed some further light on this issue !

 

[Don S]

Re: Which sealant/adhesive is best ?

There is nothing wrong with using perfect seal on the mating surfaces, I do all the time. But, you don't use perfect seal to try and glue gaskets in. It's not a glue, it's non hardening, that's what I'm getting at.

 

[intrepidvoyager]

Re: Which sealant/adhesive is best ?

Thanks Don ....i got it ....so today we are going to replace the Perfect Seal on the inner side of the SX driveshaft bellows with Merc bellows adhesive (mba)

To hold the water passage gasket in place we'll also use the mba.

then we'll coat all mating surfaces with Perfect Seal.

Dayle my buddy with the boat says he owes you big time for all the info , specially the spider info ..... also good all the spider stuff is on the forum now for others.

Anyway you got all the free tuna/marlin fishing trips you want anytime you get here !

http://images.google.com/imgres?img...images?q=sport+fishing+kauai&gbv=2&hl=en&sa=G

Check out the miniscule marlin ...first image !!!!!

 

[Don S]

Re: Which sealant/adhesive is best ?

Anyway you got all the free tuna/marlin fishing trips you want anytime you get here !

Sounds like a plan, I will borrow the iboats corperate jet that we moderators use at times, and fly over in the morning .............. Oh, wait, you haven't got the boat finished yet. Oh well, guess it will have to wait. Bummer.

 

[dakine]

Re: Which sealant/adhesive is best ?

When I want to keep corrosive fluids out of a non-gasketed flange joint that will be periodically opened I use a silicone dialectric grease. This is used frequently in corrosive environments particularly when stray current is involved. This grease stays put and eliminates local galvanic corrosion but is easily wiped off the joint for repair and reassembly. You haven't seen a corrosive environment until you have worked in a Gulf coast chemical plant with a bunch of chlorine and HCl in the air.

http://www.polysi.com/dow corning m...S Sheets/DC GREASES TECH SHEETS/DC G-5008.pdf


I do know about the Hawaii marine environment and its salt spray challenges.
I sample it as often as I can!
http://i257.photobucket.com/albums/hh225/daCommodore/SBYC/ETJibesScreensaver.jpg