Why all the concern with top speed?

45Auto

Commander
Joined
May 31, 2002
Messages
2,842
Re: Why all the concern with top speed?

Once you have the rig running at max efficiency at wide open, it'll be at max efficiency at any rpm you chose to run.

There seems to be a lot of misconceptions that propping your boat for max RPM and speed makes it most efficient at any RPM. This is no more true on a boat than it is on a car, truck, or airplane. That's why they have multiple gears on road vehicles and variable pitch props or transmissions on the most efficient airplanes or boats. The slipping of the driving element (water for a boat, air for an airplane) allows a fixed-pitch propeller to work acceptably at most speeds.

You?ll see many high performance street cars with 5 or 6 speed transmissions that reach max speed in 4th gear (typically 1:1 transmission gearing). They are slower in 5th or 6th which are generally overdrive ratios (tranny output shaft turning faster than the engine). But if you are cruising down the freeway at 70 they are much more efficient (better MPG) in 5th or 6th gear. Same thing holds true for heavy trucks. If you?re looking for top speed (why???? :)) they?ll be faster a few gears down from the top where the peak of the "available power" curve crosses the "required power" curve . See this thread if you're not familiar with "power required" versus "power available" curves:

http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=225803&highlight=power

If you?re looking for acceleration you want to be in the lower gears. For max economy you want to be in the tallest gear it can pull without ?lugging? the motor.

Maximizing your speed and RPM on your boat gives you good ?all-around? performance. Kind of like 4th gear in the car example above. But if you?re looking for more acceleration (pull up skiers, etc) then you could possibly want a lower-pitched prop ? equivalent to 2nd or 3rd gear on the car. You give up a little top speed for more torque at the prop. Conversely, if you?re going to be cruising all day, you may want a higher pitched prop, equivalent to the 5th or 6th gear overdrive in a car. Again, you would give up a little top speed because the engine doesn?t have the power to push the ?taller? gear ratio as fast, but you would gain efficiency (MPG) at cruising speeds. Same reason more expensive airplanes have variable-pitch props. Low pitch for take-off and climb, high pitch for cruise. Top speed will not be at the highest pitch.

It is possible to go too far in either direction and hurt your engine. Too low a prop pitch allows it to easily over-rev. Too high a prop pitch forces the engine to be ?lugging? at low speed conditions. Since many people can?t tell when an engine is ?lugging? (it?s actually kind of hard to define) it?s safest for the manufacturers to prop the engine so it can reach max speed at max RPM. This gives decent performance throughout the RPM range without risking over-revving or lugging the engine. It's a good compromise for most conditions, but optimized ONLY for maximum speed. You're giving up some acceleration and some efficiency at lower speeds. The added complexity and cost of variable pitch props and transmissions on boats are not cost-effective for the small gains you would show in acceleration and economy in most cases.
 

Thad

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
Jun 8, 2009
Messages
1,028
Re: Why all the concern with top speed?

I just don't like being passed:D

Oh, and I love to go fast!!!
 

NSBCraig

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Aug 21, 2007
Messages
1,907
Re: Why all the concern with top speed?

Slower in overdrive????

No,No,No that post makes zero sense think it through again.
 

45Auto

Commander
Joined
May 31, 2002
Messages
2,842
Re: Why all the concern with top speed?

Slower in overdrive????

No,No,No that post makes zero sense think it through again.

:) Exactly why I posted to this thread. Lots of people don't understand the relationship of power, gears, torque, and drag. I don't need to think it through, I know how it works. Unfortunately lots of expensive hardware would tend to get blown up and I wouldn't get paid (haven't won the lottery yet) if I didn't know how it works.

Did you read the thread I provided a link to in my earlier post? It all comes down to power required versus power available. If you keep adding taller and taller gears, at some point the drag of the vehicle overcomes the power the engine is producing to turn the gears. You're probably running somewhere around a 19"-21" pitch prop on your Baja. Do you really think you can put a 50" pitch prop on your boat and double your speed??? That's the equivelent of putting your car in overdrive.

From Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chevrolet_Corvette

GM claimed that 405 hp (302 kW) versions of the Z06 could make the 0-60 run in 3.9 seconds and through the quarter mile in 12.4 seconds. In the hands of experienced drivers the 2002?2004 Z06 has made 11 second passes. The current quarter mile record is 11.7. The car's top speed of 176 mph (283 km/h) was achieved in 5th gear at 6,500 rpm(redline), as 6th gear was an overdrive/economy gear.
 

Bilgamesh

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Jun 16, 2009
Messages
173
Re: Why all the concern with top speed?

Good input 45auto; thanks!
 

25thmustang

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Mar 20, 2008
Messages
1,849
Re: Why all the concern with top speed?

+1 on the post above.
I want my boats to do a cruising speed of 26-28 MPH @3600 RPMs. Why? Thats where the torque and HP curves cross and thats the most efficient engine speed. For most boats, the efficient hull cruise speed is about 26-28. So, if everything matches, the engine will last. Mine is 8 yrs old and no major problems.
I have had 14 boats in my lifetime. The above holds true for I/O boats.

HP and TQ curves will "cross" at 5250 RPM when on a 1 to 1 scale of HP and TQ. HP is a function of TQ x RPM/5250... Therefore this is the only RPM "crossing" will happen. Not many boats will cruise most efficiently at 5250 RPM, but the 26-28 mph sounds about right.
 

StoutMann

Cadet
Joined
Nov 29, 2007
Messages
19
Re: Why all the concern with top speed?

I just want to be able to go as fast as I can, using as little fuel as I can, while being as easy as I can on my engine. Just trying to optimize everything for the one gear I have.:)
 

Tubingluvr

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 23, 2007
Messages
426
Re: Why all the concern with top speed?

for me its about showing off once a year.
We generally don't much over 40 but once a year we head up to hardy dam for hot boat weekend also known as hardy party.

Its a guy thing its all about fast boats and bare breasts.

Search "hardy party" on you tube
 

n2ostroker

Petty Officer 2nd Class
Joined
Aug 9, 2008
Messages
177
Re: Why all the concern with top speed?

Besides setting the boat up correctly...
I just like to go fast, be loud, and show off my junk. :D


It satisfies my need for speed at the moment. Being a hotrod guy I'm always searching to make what I have perform its best.
 
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