Why am I doing this?

[LubeDude]

Im in the process of tuning the boat engine combination with my 1800 SF Tracker Bass Boat with a Merc 150. You know, Prop, engine hight, smart tabs etc. The base line for the test is 57 MPH @ 6,000 RPMs. Boats very stable, and hole shot is awsome. I have a 23 Pitch Hi-five prop now, and am going to try a 25 Pitch Turbo 4 Blade, should bring the RPMs down some and give a little more top end. Also I am going to raise the engine one hole which should give me a bit more top end. Not sure yet what the smart tabs will do, Thats just an experiment. I feel Im going to be somewhere between 60-65 MPH. Now, why do I want to go that fast anyway? The boat already feels like its flying. I guess Ive always been the type that wants everything as good as it can get. I could always buy a jack plate and get even more, but I have drawn the line.

 

[Boomyal]

Re: Why am I doing this?

Just stay away from those power tools L'dude, and you'll be ok!

 

[ZmOz]

Re: Why am I doing this?

Even if I was going 90 I would still want to go faster. I'm looking for a hydrostream hull that would put me right around there too...

 

[kd6nem]

Re: Why am I doing this?

Maybe in one of these I'd go that fast if the water was glassy.... OutRider <br />Ever heard the old pilot's adage? Applies to boating too. "There are old pilots, and bold pilots, but there are no old, bold pilots" If I want to go that fast it happens in the air not on water. Still, I understand the need. Just be picken careful, OK? In my boat I think I'm flying at less than half that speed.

 

[Jdeagro]

Re: Why am I doing this?

Lube Dude;<br /><br />The 4 blade prop may give you some lift, the smart tab may give you some lift and will definately increase the RPMs (adjusted correctly), and then raising the engine more may be a bit much. Get the hull efficiency first. Don't make more than one change at a time. Put the trim tabs of first, then change engine height if you want, then prop to the correct RPM's. That's my recommendation.<br /><br />Have fun!!!

 

[JasonJ]

Re: Why am I doing this?

zmoz, I know where a Hydrostream Vector hull is. The guy spent all last year trying to sell it for $800 and it never sold, mainly because that is a useless hull up here but also because it needs a new interior at a minimum. I keep tossing back and forth over whether to offer him a low amount, buy it, rebuild it, and sell it/keep it or not. Right now it is sitting out in his field of junk cars and crap, never covered. Its a sorry sight. It has a 100 horse Merc on it that he has never seen run.

 

[LubeDude]

Re: Why am I doing this?

Nautijohn:<br /><br />My intention is to change the prop first, as I need to get the RPMs down anyway. Then take for a run and check performance. Then Im changing over to Amsoil Injector synthetic oil. Then run around a bit and see if there is any RPM difference. ( Ive seen some in the past). Then the smart tabs will be hooked up and another test run will be made. I really doubt that I will be raising the engine after that. The boat is very stable allready, no chine walk or any handling problems.<br /><br />Another question for you John, (Im sure you do not probably reccomend this), My transom is angled and I emailed you and your reply was that you sell angled tabs too, but not wanting to send what I have back and waiting for them to get here, and I wanted the tabs to be at the correct angle, I determined the angle and trimmed them myself and changed the angle of the mount on the tabs also. With this change to the 1080-60 Mobster tabs, where should I start with the force adjustment? I thought that because I removed some of the surface area that I should lighten up on them a little and then stiffen them if needed. They now are perfectly straight across the back and look really good. I havnt tested them and have them tied up.

 

[BillP]

Re: Why am I doing this?

Raising the engine is the easiest way to gain top speed and the first thing I'd do. Using a jack plate with low water pickup is better. <br /><br />Everytime you go out, changing wind, waves and load make a difference for trimming at top speed. Cockpit adjustable tabs are best for speed tweaking. Fixed and "smart" type can't match it...unless you want to stop and change their settings. The is no "one setting" that will fit all conditions. <br /><br />Actually, few or none of the hi performance guys I know deploy tabs when running 65 mph/20' flats boats. All use 4 or 5 blade props and all use jack plates.

 

[LubeDude]

Re: Why am I doing this?

Beleive it or not, I have to agree with everything you posted.<br /><br />The only reason Im using the smart tabs is because I tow a ski tube every now and then and I would like to maintain a planing condition at slow speeds and would prefer to jump on plane quickly. Because Its a Bass Boat, I will not be experiencing any big sea conditions where I boat.<br /><br />Ill have to see how things progress whether I raise the engine any more, Its already quite high. A jack plate would likly help top end, they nearly always do, but aproching 65MPH is good enough for this old boy and an 18' boat.<br /><br />the 57 MPH is by the boats speedometer, (notoriously inacurate) I need to borrow a GPS to get true readings, sure feels faster than that. Ive been in a number of 60 MPH boats, and this one feels faster.

 

[Jdeagro]

Re: Why am I doing this?

Hi BillP;<br />I think you do not quite understand the Smart Tabs system. Anyway let's see what Lube Dude comes up with.<br /><br />If you would like to get an complete explanation of the Smart Tabs system call 800-233-0194.

 

[JasonJ]

Re: Why am I doing this?

Lubedude, you asked why you are doing this? Because you want to know you have it when you want it. You also want to know when that 300 pound person wants a ride that the boat will do more than displace water. <br /><br />I found with my pitot style speedo that it is only 3 mph slower than GPS speed. I also found that despite how fast I thought my boat was, in fact it only goes about 39 mph GPS. I used to think it went faster, but then I had also added a casting deck, casting chair, bowmount troller up front with deep cycle battery, fishfinder, 5.5 horse gas troller out back, and a downrigger. I have to assume that much weight added probably did slow me down. Interestingly, I still hit near 6000 rpms like I did before so who knows. All I care about is that it cruises fine and gets me to the fishin' spot.

 

[LubeDude]

Re: Why am I doing this?

The Bass Boats Ive had in the past would do about 50 MPH. 15' 85 HP. Very few people have really ever gone much over 25-30 MPH on the water on an average. Its always fun when you take some unsupecting person out on the water and ask them if they want to see what 50+ MPH feels like on the water, It nearly always scares the **** out of them. Now with a boat the will easily do 60+ MPH it will be interesting to watch there faces. Im not really used to it yet. Must have something to do with my age. Even though I will tune it for the max, I will probably rarely go that fast with todays gas prices. But it is fun to put the pedal to the metal at times. (or is that lever to the glass). I cant hardly beleive the speed of some of the new Bass Boats now, I guess there are some aproching 100 MPH. Misss LubeDude had an interesting comment the first time I opened it up for her, but I cant repeat it here on the forum.

 

[ZmOz]

Re: Why am I doing this?

You haven't lived until you have been standing up in the back of a 16' boat doing 50+ while holding onto the ski pole with one hand and a beer in the other.

 

[BillP]

Re: Why am I doing this?

nautiJohn,<br />I may not understand the tabs but they don't "think" as good as a driver with fingertip tab control does. <br /><br />Here's what I'm talking about:<br />Crossover flats boat...20'x 650lb kevlar hull & 175 Merc x 27 pitch 4 blade prop. Bob's Machine jackplate and low water pickup. Bennet cockpit controlled tabs. 64 mph with tabs retracted and never faster with them deployed. <br /><br />Stern shot is before tabs and platform. Boat ran with 1/2 of the hub submerged.<br /><br />Water view is full rig.<br /><br />

<br /><br />

 

[Dhadley]

Re: Why am I doing this?

Bill, we've worked with that same basic hull. As a matter of fact I have one but it doesnt have the step and its not near that light.<br /><br />Anyway the other one we worked with was just like yours. The problem was that we could not get the boat to lift right because of the boxes behind the motor. They were like giant tabs that couldnt be retracted. The owner even had the bottoms of them raised. <br /><br />We finally moved the motor back with a bracket so it was even with the back of the boxes. That changed the balance point and the rig just took off. What a difference!

 

[BillP]

Re: Why am I doing this?

Dh,<br />That was back in 1992, being a semi-custom the design (and construction)may have changed a lot. The jackplate and prop change (tried 5) made the biggest performance bang for the buck. Speed dropped to 45mph when churning through mud banks. The boxes helped keep it on a plane at "flats" speeds. It left a 100' long rooster tail that looked like a milkshake when running in ankle deep water. After two seasons it wore out a set of gears and one mounting bracket...but not a pump impeller! You can't run like that anymore due to environmental regs.<br /><br />That's the road to Flamingo in the Everglades Nat Park.<br />BP

 

[Jdeagro]

Re: Why am I doing this?

Bill P<br /><br />I think you are under the assumption that the Smart Tabs "stop" in the horizontal position when the water pressure pushes them up. They can be pushed up beyond horizontal by design. In this manner (unlike hydraulic tabs) the lift is regulated by the actuator resistance. The fact that this resistance is adjustable allows the boat owner to dial in the best for his boat, and then they never exceed this lift pressure.<br /><br />As for helm controlled tabs and the ability of the driver to make exactly the correct adjustment - you can not adjust the tabs manually from the helm as pricisely or quickly as Smart Tabs adjust automatically.<br /><br />But if you are happy with your boat then what you have is the best. Just go enjoy it as often as possible - life is short.

 

[BillP]

Re: Why am I doing this?

<br />As for helm controlled tabs and the ability of the driver to make exactly the correct adjustment - you can not adjust the tabs manually from the helm as pricisely or quickly as Smart Tabs adjust automatically.<br />

Precision meaning they will go back to the same setting everytime? Quick meaning they do it faster?<br /><br />Precision to me is having the ability to adjust (with or without trim indicators)tabs at will to match exact conditions and changing loads...that cannot be done with preselects no matter how you word it. Preselects work on water pressure. There are other factors that make boats do weird things. <br /><br />"Quick" has never been a problem with cockpit adjustables. The only people who say that are ones who don't use them. No one wants abrupt tab changes except for poping up on a plane...and that is easily done in a few seconds.<br /><br />If I start jumping waves offshore (as frequently done when coming home in following seas and winds), do the tabs "quickly" deploy because there is no pressure on them? If so, does that mean the deployed setting will be different everytime the boat re-enters the water if air time is different? Is that what you mean by quick?

 

[Jdeagro]

Re: Why am I doing this?

BillP;<br /><br />I have explained this a number of times on this forum and those who are familiar with helm controlled tabs have a difficult time understanding the difference. <br /><br />When I talk about quick response I mean that the system is always active. The key to controlling the boat attitude and performance is to prevent the boat from getting into a "bad attitude". Since Smart Tabs are active the degredation in attitude is minimized, and therefore less agressive correction are required. <br /><br />Admittedly, helm controled tabs can make more agressive corrections, but "prevention & active control " provides and the best handling. <br /><br />Smart Tabs do not react instantly as they are dampened, again by design. They will not slam down when the boat leaves the water, they deploy slowly. However the constant active resistance to change is like having a suspension system on your car.<br /><br />If your boat is larger ( typically larger than 22 to 24 feet, then the best choice is likely to be helm controlled tabs. Larger heavier boats are not our market. Handling issues are very different on these boats. <br /><br />I still suggest that you call for more personal attention to your specific concerns, but in any event I assure you that we have invested a lot of resources to insure that the product works properly and safely. Ask anyone who has them what they think about the overall handling and performance.<br /><br />We have printed a booklet that addresses boat balance and performance which we would be happy to send to you at no charge ( or anyone else for that matter), just email your address to John@NauticusInc.com

 

[BillP]

Re: Why am I doing this?

Again, your ideas of a boat's "bad attitude" and mine are different. I guess you are axxuming everyone wants to run the same "attitude" (I call it trim) going out or coming back in. I run into chop and trim the bow down for a smoother ride. Coming back I run same speed and trim the bow up to keep from planting the bow into the back of a wave. Same speed, same water pressure, different tab settings. Presets don't do this. If what I wanted most was to pop up on a plane faster I'd buy your tabs. If I wanted a adjust for shifting loads and other stuff I'd buy the other ones.<br /><br />I have no "concerns" with the safety or quality of your product and don't know why you say that. Thanks for the repetitive offer to get brochures on boat balance...but I'm sure everything I've studied in Skene's, Knight's, Dutton's, Chapmans's, Westlawn, etc. has covered any boat balance data your brochure would offer. <br /><br />Bye.