Will a bad fuel pump cause my boat to not plane out?

yguildl

Cadet
Joined
May 7, 2010
Messages
23
the boat shop said the reason my boat wouldnt pick up speed and would not plane out is because the fuel pump was bad and it was flooding the engine, is this a possible scenario or ?
 

jtexas

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Oct 13, 2003
Messages
8,646
Re: Will a bad fuel pump cause my boat to not plane out?

what motor we talkin bout?

it's possible. Some pumps, a perforated diaphram leaks gas into the crankcase.

what did the shop do to rule out the other possibilities?
 

kenmyfam

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Aug 10, 2006
Messages
14,392
Re: Will a bad fuel pump cause my boat to not plane out?

Agree. Need a little more of the diagnosis first.
 

yguildl

Cadet
Joined
May 7, 2010
Messages
23
Re: Will a bad fuel pump cause my boat to not plane out?

its a 74 50hp evinrude.
thats what the shop told me was the problem, but i've already spent 600$ in there to fix a problem that was never fixed,
its hard to crank so they were like oh yeah cleaning the carbs shuold help, then they did that and they said i needed a killswitch so they put one on, and they rewired it without me asking them to, although it was a mess, i still didnt ask them to,
the boats still hard to cvrank, cleaning the carbs did nothing. i wouldnt have taken the boat back but when i got on the water it wouldnt plane out and its never had that problem before. so i was kinda agitated and figured since they did the work they need to fix it, now there saying its a fuel pump -.- i just dont want to spend more money if thats not even a possibliity
 

jtexas

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Oct 13, 2003
Messages
8,646
Re: Will a bad fuel pump cause my boat to not plane out?

That pump will flood the motor if the diaphram gets punctured, and that motor is old enough to experience a diaphram failure.

If the shop didn't do a compression test and spark test before rebuilding the carbs, then what you have there is a bunch of parts-changers masquerading as mechanics, and I'd recommend finding somebody else who knows how to troubleshoot. Your compression numbers should be noted on your bill of work.

Better yet, get yourself a service manual and do it yourself, especially if (like me) you have more time than money to spend on your boat.

It's easy enough to rule out the fuel pump as the source of the problem, but lets start with the basics:

What's the compression on your motor?

Is "hard to crank" the original issue?

Is it limited to cold starts or warm starts, or both?
Besides the carb rebuild and wiring, what else was done at the shop?
 

yguildl

Cadet
Joined
May 7, 2010
Messages
23
Re: Will a bad fuel pump cause my boat to not plane out?

ok im going to type a good size summary of everything, so i can give you guys the best imformation i can.


It started out when i bought the boat, it had a starter problem and only cranked on pull starts, which was very difficult and i have no idea how he did it on the water..
the first thing i did was get the starter rebuilt, i got it built in a city near the water here in alabam, its was 65$ and worked great.

The boats throttle seems to be very touch there is a spot with an arrow that says start here. The engine will not even try to turn over unless it is a half inch above this start here, then it turns over, sometimes i trys to crank, when it does i give it more throttle, it will either stop trying to turn over or it will crank up. it also had problems idleing low, if i try to idle it would die.

the first crank is ALWAYS the hardest, sometimes ill sit there for 5mins trying to crank it. After its cranked and i ride it to the fishign spot which isnt very far i can turn it off then it cranks not easy still, but easier, sometimes withen the first 3-4 times of trying to crank it, following the same procedure as above.

So i called this boat shop near my house, its big, packed and sells lots of boats. so i figured it would be a good place. I told them my problems and they said it sounds like the carbs need to be cleaned. so i said how muhc, they said its 100$ per carb and my boat has 2. so 200 bucks.


I also wanted them to re-seal the drain plug, it was wearing out and made me nervous, so they did that also. whats alll this run, he said thats nothign , should be no more then 250.


I rode up there to checkk on the boat after not hearing from them for 3-4 days and they were working on it, while i was there they were like wheres the Kill switch on this boat, and i said what?? (im new to boating obvioulsy)
and he said yeah a switch to conenct to your life vest its needed on boats here in alabama, so i said how much is a kill swtich he said 15bux i said ok go ahead and do it. and while your at it i already have a speedometer but its not hooked up, he said it would need some device to go on the back of the boat i said ok how much 10buck,s go ahead and do it.

2-3 days later i go up there to check on the boat again because of course i havent heard from them. I pull up and he says they litterally just fishined it up and hes walking me through it, he showed me the kill switch, showed me the drain plug, then started explaining about how the fron battery had the lights and the trolling motor on it. and it also had a hot wire from the main battery going up to that battery makiung it a 24volt system that was bad so he rewired all that stuff, i was like well thats nice of him (i guess i ended up paying him in the end) which the wiring looked good now, i wasnt complaining. i asked about thes peedomenter and he said that he blew some air in it and it seemed to work, (thanks i guess?)

then he went to crank it. it took him a LONG time to crank, im talkinga bout a good 10 mins, he said it could be becasue they had winterized gas, alot of extra oil in it. finally it cranked, after he tried to tell me something about this motor has problems idleing that there was nothign that could be done about it, something abuot just the year and age, thats why it had that "sweet spot" to crank it. i was aggitated, but i was ready to take my boat out and didnt even think to mention that the reason i brought it in was to fix the idleing and cranking problem -.-.

so i figured i was close to the 300 range with all this extra work.

when he told me 600 i was like woah! i didnt say anything but if the boat ran good and idled okay i guess id deal with it.

the reciept pretty much said parts ordered then"shop hours"

like....

Speedometer thing -10
brass drain plug-10
carb kit -25
Shop hours 5.0

total 600
________________

something like that.

__________________

so i was aggitated but i only paid 300bucks for the boat so i can deal with that. even though theres a 50hp evinrude in my area on craigslist for 600bucks right now, that has no problems at all cranks right up etc.etc. which i recently found....

This was monday afternoon..

tuesday i took the boat out, it took forever to crank so long that the battery died *the battery is old, so that could be it* i swtiched it over to teh trolling motor battery and that cvranked it up fairly fast.
road aourn everything was fine all day..

HONESTLY i found NO diffrence in the carbs, still had troubles idleing and cranking.

I brought the boat in, and that was it.
wednesday i went back out with my wife..

the boat wont plane out- again i know little about boats, i started freaking out thought we were taking in water in the dry space or whatever(where i drain the drain plug) but after sitting next to the dock 10mins i come to realize, that no were not sinking, so i give it another try, at full throttle it just cruises on top of the water bearly going anywhere. like if i had the thorttle at 1/8 push foward. i guess to explain it.

so it wouldnt pick up and go, i drove the boat i guess 20mins from spot to spot and it never changed.

the next day i called a friend up who knows a good bit moere than boat, he came and looked at it, and there is a breather on top of my gas can that was closed and it should be open. so i did that and was excited thinking maybe thats what it was about, but no, i took it back out and it still didnt work, so i called the shop up they said they had a 30day warnty on all the work they did, i took it in on saturday, i called them the first time thursday and thats when they told me it was the fuel pump casuing it to flood and getting to much gas so it wouldnt plane out. ( i think plane out is the correct term. )
its now friday at 1:14pm and i talked to him yesterday at 415 pm and he was trying to find a fuel pump. im about to call him back now and see what he says.
 

yguildl

Cadet
Joined
May 7, 2010
Messages
23
Re: Will a bad fuel pump cause my boat to not plane out?

also there did seem to be a good bit of gas in the water behind the motor when i was sitting still with the motor idleing high... and when i drove the boat out of the marina was a good bit of smoke coming from the water/engine.
 

yguildl

Cadet
Joined
May 7, 2010
Messages
23
Re: Will a bad fuel pump cause my boat to not plane out?

after i typed teh post i caleld them, they said the shop manager was busy at the moment, i gave themy name and number and hes suppose to call me back, this is the 3rd time ive given him my nbame and number the first 2 times, i waits hours and hours and called him back , henever called me back,.... obvioulsy this will be the alst time i use this mechanic.
 

yguildl

Cadet
Joined
May 7, 2010
Messages
23
Re: Will a bad fuel pump cause my boat to not plane out?

i forgot to mention in the above post the first thing i did was buy spark plugs, from abother boat shop, they said these were the right ones, when the guy was showing me everythign about the boat he said oh you had the wrong sparkplugs in it too.. although they ran fine, and the first boat out with the new plugs it ran fine, but the 2nd time it didnt.


the boats still in the shop-im very annoyed with all this, if i get it back and it still doesnt work idk what ill do, either sell the motor and buy a cheap used one or try to fix this one. idk.
 

yguildl

Cadet
Joined
May 7, 2010
Messages
23
Re: Will a bad fuel pump cause my boat to not plane out?

i guess its a 72..

the model number is

50273c

they used sparkplugs ql77jc4
 

jtexas

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Oct 13, 2003
Messages
8,646
Re: Will a bad fuel pump cause my boat to not plane out?

First, understand that when a motor has sat around unused for an extended period of time, stuff starts to deteriorate and it can give you problems when you pull it out of retirement (if that's what happened). In that case, the carbs would for sure need cleaning anyway.

Gas in the water around your boat is evidence of a fuel leak, and a faulty pump can do that to ya, this I know from personal experience. And its consistent with your symptoms. Were it mine, I'd just take the pump off the motor and pump up the primer bulb (with the fuel lines still attached to the pump), and look for gas leaking out the hole in the pump where it attaches to the motor -- it it's not leaking there then the pump is ok. Your guy may have some other way of diagnosing a faulty pump.

That "winterized gas" story is kind of confusing -- if the gas is making it run bad, why didn't he hook it up to a portable fuel tank for testing. I don't see how he could complete the carb work without test-running it.

The most common cause of hard cold start is choke plates that don't close completely, or don't stay closed.

As far as "nothing can be done about" bad idling, I don't buy it. Unless the motor has bad compression. Somebody else here on the board with more better experience on this particular model than me might chime in here.

Ask for your compression numbers. The PSI on both cylinders should be about the same (within 5 or 7% or so), and expect neighborhood of 100 and up, but I guess it could be low as 85 or 90. If the numbers are very low, or if one cylinder is way lower than the other, that means major work and the motor will never run right until that's fixed.

The correct spark plugs for your motor are Champion UL77V (surface gap), or QL57 gapped at .030, it will probably do better with the QL57. It's best to go with the champions vs another brand.

If you haven't already, I highly recommend thinking about replacing the water pump impeller. I do mine every other year as preventive maintenance, some do it annually. A water pump failure can cause damage beyond economic repair.

And change the gear oil.
 

yguildl

Cadet
Joined
May 7, 2010
Messages
23
Re: Will a bad fuel pump cause my boat to not plane out?

thanks for your help, i asked the guys when i went up to the shop a few mins ago if they did a compression test, the guy who worked on my boat wasnt there at the moment but tthe other guy said that he knows they tested the compression and he said one was 120 and one was like 115 he thinks.

i guess this is all the info i have now, ill keep you guys informed on new details when i hear from them, which will most likely be monday since its already 3 they dotn have the part yet and they close at 5 today.


btw, will the spark plugs im using now cause the boat to have problems? or is it okay for now?
 

yguildl

Cadet
Joined
May 7, 2010
Messages
23
Re: Will a bad fuel pump cause my boat to not plane out?

oh - the winterized gas


he said the gas i had was bad, which could be a possibilty, i just added new gas on top of the gast the guy who i bought the boat put in there ( he did say he took it out the day before i bough it)

so they used there gas, which he said was winterized so it would be harder to start because it had more oil in it---which they did use there gas tank, not mine. and they used theres to show me it crank.

, whole point in the story is i took the boat in because it was hard to crank, and it washard to crank when i left and his excuse was winterized gas, i think he may have said they use that for testing purposus i dont really remember. he said it had alot of stabilizers and stuff in it or something..
any ways

took the boat in becasue it was hard to crank
600bux later
its hard to crank.


althoguh, the wiring and the killswitch are nice.

even though in alabama you only have to have a kswitch if its over 50hp
 

yguildl

Cadet
Joined
May 7, 2010
Messages
23
Re: Will a bad fuel pump cause my boat to not plane out?

on the side of the motor youd look at if you were in the boat it has s thing that says gas/oil mix, lean and somethign else i beleive

but the knob was broken off, if had this metal rod to adjust the carb screws. they tookt hat off because they said it wasnt workign right anyways.
 

jtexas

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Oct 13, 2003
Messages
8,646
Re: Will a bad fuel pump cause my boat to not plane out?

120-115 is good.

QL77JC4 is a hotter plug than QL57 -- I would only use a hotter plug on the advice of somebody who knows this particular model of engine...I just don't have enough directly related experience to dispute your mechanic, and I'm not really in a position to judge his competence. guess that's not much help....

This is basically a well-designed and well-built motor -- I'm thinking you're probably real close to having it run the way you want it to.............
 

JasonAych

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 10, 2008
Messages
274
Re: Will a bad fuel pump cause my boat to not plane out?

I?d ask them to go through all the diagnostics they did to conclude what was wrong with your outboard. I am betting they will not really have any direct and confident inspiring answers to this. You should always instruct them to do nothing without contacting you first. However, there is a trade off here though. It may take longer for you to get your boat fixed waiting for replies. If they say they are going to replace something the question from you is ?what diagnostics did you do to conclude that part is bad??. Ask them if they will guarantee that will resolve the issue. Most likely no one will give you a guarantee but their answer will give you a good idea of how confident they are.
 

yguildl

Cadet
Joined
May 7, 2010
Messages
23
Re: Will a bad fuel pump cause my boat to not plane out?

i sure hope so, its horrible and i mean horrible when im trying to bring the boat in and theres a line of people behind me and my trailers in the water and i cant crank my boat to pull it up on the trailer.. and theres people waiting to get it or get out of the water and i take 5mins at the only dock there -.-

launching isnt that bad, ill just use the trolling motor to head out into the main water to crank it....

well im off to work, ill reply again if i know anything else or if i can answer any more quetsions. i just hope this fixes it.
 

yguildl

Cadet
Joined
May 7, 2010
Messages
23
Re: Will a bad fuel pump cause my boat to not plane out?

i willd o that when i go pick up the boat, i just called thema gain to get an estimate, he said ti woudl be about 165. im sure im annoying them, but with this 165 thats 800 bucks ive spent in there shop they can get over it i guess.

i just want some straight answers.

if it doesnt work right this time when i get out on the water i dont know what im goign to do, either ask them for some of my money back, or just cut my losses with them and take it some where else, or try to buy a new used cheap motor. i dont know.


for a 300$ boat its getting expensive! haha-

id be happy to spend another 200 here if its right this time. i guess.
 

yguildl

Cadet
Joined
May 7, 2010
Messages
23
Re: Will a bad fuel pump cause my boat to not plane out?

ok i called the shop yesterday, there waiting on a fuel pump still.

one of the mechanics told me that the fuel pump was bad and was leaking gas through the diaphram and flooding out cylinder number two.
 

mikesea

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Oct 1, 2006
Messages
1,830
Re: Will a bad fuel pump cause my boat to not plane out?

I agree with the fuelpump possibly and HOPEFULLY the trouble at this point.BUT,if I were you,I would definatly complain about having to pay another nickle to have it fixed,BECAUSE,they should have had it figured out long ago.They GUESSED at it being the carbs,it was NEVER the carbs,what was happining is,when you squeezed the ball and choked the moter you OVER flooded it.Then ,the long cranking finally relieved the motor of al the gas and it started.the motor was continually overflooded ,yet it ran,but,not right.they sjould of tested it,they didnt .therefore you could have been killed because of their stupidity.imagine the boat stalling in front of a ship or something.They were very negligent of allowing you to leave with an unsafe boat.In addition,they LIED about it being old and thats why it started poorly.If an engine has right compression,spark AND CORRECT FUEL,it will start up almost immediatly and run fine ,no matter the age.Did you buy the boat from them?if so.THEY should fix it for free if it was receintly.All they did was guess at problem and hope it fixed.Sorry ,but they took advantage of a new boater.You definatly should get in touch with the manager,have all your receipts in hand,and explain how your eng .was never fixed correctly,(hopefully until now)and given stories about why it dont run well.If it runs and starts good now,tell the manager about the story how it is old and thats why it runs poorly.The fuelpump is a relativly cheap part(especially if they rebuilt the old one.DO NOT ACCEPT the boat if it still runs bad ,AND DONT pay another cent til you ride it and its OK.At that point ,when its OK,you tell the guy ,you should NOT be paying anymore,because they finally fixed the problem and you already spent over $600 for the repair that wasnmnt done correctly.If they did put new parts in the carbs,their cost for the parts was less than $40.They charged you $200.They made $160 on a mistaken diognoses.If that was the problem ,Id have no problem with it.But it wasnt .They WILL tell you it was PART of the problem as an excuse for the bill,but they are likely lying.Sorry I got so off track here.but there are some bad mechanics ,and you met one.Most BOATERS are honest ,fun loving ,helpful people like you see here.Thats why it hurts me.Put your boxing gloves on and give them hell.Dont pay another penn.PLEASE tell us how it works out.Good Luck.Mike
 
Top