Winch walking a little ?

[Expidia]

From pics 7 and 8 in my link to Photobucket below (click on pic to enlarge) you can see the marks on the trailer frame where the upright with the winch on top is either walking a little when I'm cranking or from the boat pressing back and forth on the bow stop when trailering.

I snug the bow in pretty tight with the winch. The bow ring also has a second safety strap that keeps it into the bow stop tight.

If I tighten those 3 bolts anymore the cheap weight aluminum ears start to bend inward.

Short of welding is it place or drilling bolt holes through the ears and the frame that holds the upright in place (I don't want to weaken the frame by adding more holes).

Any ideas on how I can stop the upright from walking?

Also is there something that I should use to re-touch where the galvanization has been rubbed away that will match the rest of the frame?

Thx

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Winch walking a little ?

there is a galvanic paint the trailer dealer used to touch up. the lower part of my winch stands all bend under the tongue a little, never have a walk problem. looking at the full view of your boat and trailer. you have a single mount winch post. drill an 3/8 inch hole thru the tongue, and the mounting bracket, with big washers on each side, tighten heck out of them. like here---

 

[Expidia]

Re: Winch walking a little ?

there is a galvanic paint the trailer dealer used to touch up. the lower part of my winch stands all bend under the tongue a little, never have a walk problem. looking at the full view of your boat and trailer. you have a single mount winch post. drill an 3/8 inch hole thru the tongue, and the mounting bracket, with big washers on each side, tighten heck out of them. like here---

Thx TashD
That was the first solution I thought of. But a center bolt will still allow the post to rock.

Another thought I had is I need to look again at those bottom bolts. They may have too much space between the bolt and frame. I might be able to slip aluminum spacer tube onto those bottom bolts, so it won't rock. I'll check that out first before I have to drill.

I'd go out to look now but my backs killing me from sliding under the trailer to drill the extra holes for the rollers. Getting old is over rated

I'll pick up some galvanic touch up paint too.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Winch walking a little ?

you really need a brace running back to toward the tongue. that is really a minimum winch stand. or something like this.

 

[Expidia]

Re: Winch walking a little ?

you really need a brace running back to toward the tongue. that is really a minimum winch stand. or something like this.

Thx TD . . . Yes, I see that now from the winch pic you posted. I checked around and most winch posts have that extra support attached as in your picture.

Shoreland'r uses (at least for my model) what the call a winch upright "channel" without that needed extra support.

I think short of buying a new winch post, what I'll do as you suggest is just add two galvanized braces at 45 degree angles towards the tongue.

I'll pick them up on Mon. at a trailer shop near me and use a bolt thru the top and one through the bottom going thru the frame.

This is probably why my rig never feels solid while towing. This is why I see the slight back and forth cavitation in the rearview mirror. I thought it was the nature of the beast, but now I see it's just of poor design.

In fact , I think I'll call Shoreland'r's customer service first. I might be able to have them send me a replacement winch post because I'm sure they have had complaints on this issue. At a minimum, they should at least send me out two braces to correct this issue.

I've spoken to them before when I had an issue with my tires wearing out quickly and they were very helpful. End result was that it was my fault as I had bent the axle at a ramp striking a rock under the water line. I had to spring for a new axle.

What a pain . . I purposely bought the rig brand new to avoid all this constant tinkering and upgrading . . . oh well!

 

[Bondo]

Re: Winch walking a little ?

Ayuh,....

I think if you added a bolt where the Fourth Bolt Should Be..... It wouldn't Rock.....

Put 1 in the top aft position.....

 

[Expidia]

Re: Winch walking a little ?

Ayuh,....

I think if you added a bolt where the Fourth Bolt Should Be..... It wouldn't Rock.....

Put 1 in the top aft position.....

That's interesting too. I never noticed they could have put that 4th bolt in. That would make sense, but I'll also check with Shorelandr's customer service, because if I add another hole and the winch post snaps off, they won't be responsible.

Check out the two pics I just snapped of the under side of the post's bottom bolts. It's just what I suspected. See that gap between the bolts and the frame. This is also why the post is rocking. I'll need to eliminate that space by adding a spacer tubes over the two bottom bolts.

If CS won't do anything for me . . . and if they OK the forth hole for the bolt(I'll have them confirm that back to me by email), I'll also add the two spacers on those bottom bolts and add two 45 degree braces.

Truely p*ss poor design from a name brand company IMO.

 

[Expidia]

Re: Winch walking a little ?

Ayuh,....

I think if you added a bolt where the Fourth Bolt Should Be..... It wouldn't Rock.....

Put 1 in the top aft position.....

Bond-O

I thought from some of your other posts that you were located on Nothern Lake Champlain. That's where I thought Chaumont Bay was.

Now that I checked it out on Mapquest I see you are located in true boating paradise . . . Lake Ontario to the South and the Thousand Islands region to the North along the St lawrence river to Montreal and out to the Atlantic.

This is one of the reasons I'm getting the 22 footer. I want to be able to cruise around those areas passing through from Lake Champlain. I might even keep my new boat in a marina on Northern Champlain for a season or two in order to do just that.

Wow, your region be a better location for a boater (except in the winter).

Zooming out I see the Atlantic flows into the St Lawrence river. I always thought that river to be fresh water and it empties into Lake Ontario which I also thought to be freshwater. How salty is the St Lawrence if at all?

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Winch walking a little ?

look at this, just a piece of channel with a notch cut out for tongue.

 

[Expidia]

Re: Winch walking a little ?

Thx for taking the time to snap that pic TD.

Looks easy enough if I could find a piece of galvanized channel to fit. The straps bolted on to the side would probably be easier.

I'll probably go with two sets of 15 inch straps on each side. I realized that I'll need to do front and aft of the winch post to stop the back and forth action.

I spoke to the CS rep from MidWest Industries (Shoreland'r) He said they have not had any other complaints. Ya sure! He's already setting me up to deny any design defect with that statement. So I said I'd send him a link to the pics. I have not heard back from him yet.

Copy of email:
Hi Gary, please check the link below with the pics of the issue I'm having of the winch post rocking and moving.

As per our conversation today. Pic 1 and 2 shows the space between the bolts and the bottom of the frame which is causing some of the rocking. Do you have a spacer that can slide over the bolts to take up some of this space?

Pics 7 and 8 show how the winch post has been walking on the frame no matter how tight the bolts are before the ears start bending.

Also pic 2 shows the ear starting to bend (see right ear below the frame) so I can't tighten the bolts and tighter without damaging those ears.

Of course, I'm not a mechanical engineer but it seems to me there should be another bolt in the top rear position to prevent this rocking and walking. Being that the metal is so thin that it bends when tightening there could also have been added two braces mounted at 45 degree angles towards the tongue for added support. Do you have any hardware to accomplish this.

If you Google "boat trailer winch" you will see most posts come with an added 45 degree bracket for better support.

I bought this rig brand new in 2007 delivered in June from Beckley's Albany NY (now Yankee Marine).

I purposely bought new so I wouldn't have to worry about these issues, yet I'm disappointed in the quality of the design of this models winch post upright.

Do you have some type of heavier duty replacement post?

I'm leary of drilling extra holes in the post or frame which could weaken it's structural integrity. And since I bought this trailer brand new I shouldn't have to be drilling holes just so the post won't walk or rock.

Vin # 1MO . . ..
Model: LUCB14TM
Purchased 6/7/07

I realize this is not a heavy weight trailer. But my boat is the Lund 1425 classic model which is only 14' 9" and aluminum at apprx 700 lbs, with the 40 hp Merc 4 stroke.

I tow behind a Saab 9-5, so I can't really go to a heavy trailer.

This trailer has given me issues from the start. Originally came with defective tires which you replaced. The supposedly certified boat dealer's techs had the improper tongue weight since they didn't want to take the time to move the axle back one hole. The first time I unhooked the trailer, the tongue flew up only stopping when the new Merc's skeg crashed to the pavement. I had to bring the rig down to the launch ramp, float the boat and move the axle back one hole myself to obtain the proper tongue weight.

Then a month later the axle bent from some type of underwater launch ramp obstruction (would be my guess because I don't ever remember hitting anything), this cost me $400 to replace (on a $650 trailer) I was told by the dealer that this issue was due more to the thinness of the U-shaped axle which is of poor design as it should be of a closed design for added strength.

http://s198.photobucket.com/albums/aa2/expidia/

Please call me on my cell 518-xxx-xxxx and let me know how this issue can be solved after you have looked at the pics

Thx

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Winch walking a little ?

put it to them, how do they really expect that to hold in an emergency stop.

 

[jeeperman]

Re: Winch walking a little ?

Look up what your model trailer has for a winch post nowadays from Shorelander. Is it exactly the same as yours?
If they have changed it and it looks better than yours then demand they swap your old style for the new style.
Because they changed it for a reason, like your reasons.

You could eliminate the space between the lower bolts and frame underside with wedges. Go to a 4x4 shop and look for axle spring pad wedges. They are aluminum wedges about 2.5" inches wide x 4 " long and made to change the pinion angle on lifted trucks. Just pound them into the space.

 

[Expidia]

Re: Winch walking a little ?

Look up what your model trailer has for a winch post nowadays from Shorelander. Is it exactly the same as yours?
If they have changed it and it looks better than yours then demand they swap your old style for the new style.
Because they changed it for a reason, like your reasons.

You could eliminate the space between the lower bolts and frame underside with wedges. Go to a 4x4 shop and look for axle spring pad wedges. They are aluminum wedges about 2.5" inches wide x 4 " long and made to change the pinion angle on lifted trucks. Just pound them into the space.

Thx, good info. I'll as the CS rep (if he ever calls back) if the 2008 winch post is exactly the same as the 2007 as I have.

Those wedges sound like a good idea if I can't find some spaces that just slip over the bolts. I fear the wedges would eventually work their way back out.

 

[Expidia]

Re: Winch walking a little ?

put it to them, how do they really expect that to hold in an emergency stop.

It just ticks me off that his immediate response is "no, we have had no complaints on that model's post". He is full of crap!

These CS reps are like robots trained to do nothing for you and yet it's as you say . . . the way it is now is down right dangerous to say nothing of the extra wear and tear this shaking has already put on my rig from all my trailering around.

 

[Bondo]

Re: Winch walking a little ?

Zooming out I see the Atlantic flows into the St Lawrence river. I always thought that river to be fresh water and it empties into Lake Ontario which I also thought to be freshwater. How salty is the St Lawrence if at all?

Ayuh,...... Nothing but Sweetwater Here.....

Rivers Do flow to the Sea,..... Never the other way around.......
Just turn your Map around,+ it'll Flow the right way.............

if I can't find some spaces that just slip over the bolts.

Ayuh,.....

1/2" Galvanized Pipe will fit......

 

[Expidia]

Re: Winch walking a little ?

Ayuh,...... Nothing but Sweetwater Here.....

Rivers Do flow to the Sea,..... Never the other way around.......
Just turn your Map around,+ it'll Flow the right way.............

Funny, when you look at a map you just think because the Atlantic is "North" the waters wil flow "South". Now I feel dumb, I should have realized rivers always flow into the ocean not the other way around.



Ayuh,.....

1/2" Galvanized Pipe will fit......

ya that should work and easy to find too!
Thx

I'll pick up the needed hardware once the CS at Shoreland'r answers me back with there is nothing they can do for me.

I'll make it right myself, but it's not going to end there. They are putting out an inferior product of poor design that I paid good money for. They "will" make it right, they just don't know it yet

 

[Expidia]

Re: Winch walking a little ?

Ayuh,...... Nothing but Sweetwater Here.....

Rivers Do flow to the Sea,..... Never the other way around.......
Just turn your Map around,+ it'll Flow the right way.............

Now I feel dumb, I should have realized rivers flow into the sea and not the other way around

It's just that when you look at a map with the Atlantic Ocean in the North I figured the waters must flow South

 

[Al Kungel]

Re: Winch walking a little ?

Expidia,
I had the exact same problem on my Shoreland'r trailer. That is a very poor design. This is how I fixed it on mine.

 

[Expidia]

Re: Winch walking a little ?

Expidia,
I had the exact same problem on my Shoreland'r trailer. That is a very poor design. This is how I fixed it on mine.

Hi Al thanks for that pic. What year is your trailer?

Seems they have kept the same crummy design. It's their way of allowing a dealer to fit the trailer to any boat quickly IMO.

I see they don't use the forth bolt either on yours.

Another poster suggested adding the forth bolt but after thinking about it a bolt in the forth corner won't do anything because the other 3 spots have a clamping effect, The two on the lower ears and the 3rd on the top left because the left side of the channel is open and clampable. The forth bolt would have no clamping effect because the channel is closed at that top right spot and would have no clamping effect.

What you did with the u-bolts is OK. No one else had mentioned it as a simply solution yet. For me though because the post is so tall and the the winch is high up the fulcrum action would move the u-bolts eventually and not stop the rocking to my satisfaction.

Bottom line is if I'm happy with the boats current position, I can drill two bolt holes through the post and "frame". 1 thru the bottom left position and the 2nd thru the top right position. I can also use a smaller diameter bolt than the ones they are using for the clamping effect. I'll still add the 45 degree side straps for added stability. The whole upgrade should only cost about 10-15 bucks.

Thx for taking the time to snap that pic. Does anyone really believe that Shoreland'r has never had any complaints from this cheap design?

All that back and forth winch action was also causing the back edge of the transom to cut into the carpet on the bunk ends. I should go after Shoreland'r for new bunks too!

 

[Expidia]

Re: Winch walking a little ?

Update: Spoke to the CS rep from Shoreland'r today. He said he saw the pics and right away offered to send me a new post and bolts. I offered to pay extra for the next model post up, but he said all their posts are that design until you get up into the 3000 lbs plus range.

He said it's possible that it could have bowed out a little from over tightening.

That sounded fair to me. When the new one comes I'm going to drill two holes thru the post and frame anyway, with a smaller diameter bolt.

He said it was OK to do it that way as long as the holes are not to big.

If it still rocks (which I doubt it will) I'll then add the extra support braces on the sides.