Winterizing questions

[Blind Date]

If you really want to use antifreeze, drain the block first, then refill it with antifreeze. Might potentially give you some rust protection, but is absolutely not needed for freeze protection. If there was a problem with hidden water pools, you would have heard about it LONG ago from everyone that uses the 'air don't freeze' method.

Exactly. And any water that doesn't drain has a place to go, now that the motor/manifolds aren't plump full of it. When it freezes it isn't going to damage the block.

I don't put RV antifreeze in my motor or water system on the SeaRay. With the water system I drain and blow out with air. Sure there is still some water here and there but not enough to damage anything when it freezes during a cold Minnesota winter. The ice will find the path of least resistance.

Some people seem to be under the impressions that any water in the engine or manifolds will damage them when it freezes. Simply not the case.

 

[Patfromny]

A thermostat will open and close as the water in the engine gets too hot. It will open and let the hot water out. Once the water gets cool, it snaps shut. You would have to get lucky with that antifreeze trick for it to get into the engine. Or have the antifreeze empty back into the bucket for 10 mins. Or so. I would change the l/u oil. You won't have to change it again in the spring. I have a cracked unit to prove you should change it. I always stored the boat indoors and it never had water in it in the spring anyway. Left it outside once and forgot to do the oil. Bang. Cracked case. I would also run the stabil and put more in than recommended. Run for 10 mins so you know the bowl is full of that fuel. I would drain the bowl to be honest. I don't trust that the stabil actually works. But making sure the stabil fuel is in the carb is the second best scenario. Good luck. You have gotten some solid advice so far. Go the extra mile so that the boat will go a ton of extra miles for you. Always been my motto. If you say, "that's good enough" that means you know you can do more...and should. Hope you get many years of pleasure out of your boat

 

[wrvond]

Awesome!!! Thanks for all the info everyone!! I will add the oil change as part of my process as well. WRVOND...you mentioned topping off tank...I would have thought near empty tank was better...is that not true?

My owner's manual says to ensure the tank is full. IIRC their explanation is that condensation is more likely to occur in a partially full tank. I've never questioned it because I use the Stabil and the longest I've let it sit is six months. The way fuel prices go, by the time I re-commission the boat, the fuel I'm using cost significantly less so I'm ahead anyway.

 

[viper1216]

That makes sense...thanks!

 

[frantically relaxing]

...any water that doesn't drain has a place to go, now that the motor/manifolds aren't plump full of [water]. When it freezes it isn't going to damage the block... The ice will find the path of least resistance.

Some people seem to be under the impressions that any water in the engine or manifolds will damage them when it freezes. Simply not the case.

Absolutely true. As long as water has some air space nearby, ice will expand into it. I haven't antifreezed an engine block in years, and lord knows I've winterized plenty of engines!

So how a little definitive evidence?

We all know ice can bust thru cast iron as if it were no more than thick tin foil.

So how about an expansion test USING thick tin foil?

--Like this Pepsi can... I just did this last night.

I cut the top off to see the water, and thought that would make it even more flimsy.

SO- if ice can bust its way thru a .200" thick cast iron engine block,
surely it'll have no problem bullying its way thru a .004" thick aluminum can...?

Let's find out---


can with just water, going into the freezer...

22 hours later, water is now pretty much frozen solid...

The can shows nary a bulge--

Cutting the can open...

================================

I've done this before so I knew it'd work ...

Since there was plenty of room to move up, the ice just moved up, and did no harm at all to the can. This proves to me (at least) that a couple of tablespoons of water hiding in a few crevices in the water jacket *shouldn't* cause any damage to the block...

 

[roffey]

ya but look what it did to your thumb, LOL.

 

[Patfromny]

I'd bet that was from the cutting of the can. Lol. I do this same experiment every year with my in ground sprinklers. My results are usually different. :blue: i would bet i dont have more than a 5 ft run in them without a splice repair. I even blow them out three times each year. Oh well. I would agree with "the air doesn't freeze" crowd. Drain it as best you can. Unless you poor antifreeze down from the top of the engine until it is full, you won't get antifreeze into every crevice that might have water. If the antifreeze makes you feel more secure, go for it. It will be no worse off than just leaving it.

 

[roffey]

my 2 cents are drain the motor completely, then add the antifreeze (if it makes you feel safer).

 

[Patfromny]

And for the same reason, drain the L/U in the fall. You should do it every year. Why not in the fall. If you have any water in the unit it will freeze and Crack the much thinner case. Then, as stated above, leave the unit in the down position so no rain or snow water gets into it and pools. In the down position, any water from weather will drain out of the unit. I had to dig a hole in my yard to accomplish this because I also tip my boat toward the stern to have any weather water drain out of the plug. Just the way I do it.

 

[oldjeep]

my 2 cents are drain the motor completely, then add the antifreeze (if it makes you feel safer).

Yup, that is how I do it. The antifreeze for me is only for corrosion protection as the heater cores and knock sensors tend to rot out without it.

 

[viper1216]

And for the same reason, drain the L/U in the fall. You should do it every year. Why not in the fall. If you have any water in the unit it will freeze and Crack the much thinner case. Then, as stated above, leave the unit in the down position so no rain or snow water gets into it and pools. In the down position, any water from weather will drain out of the unit. I had to dig a hole in my yard to accomplish this because I also tip my boat toward the stern to have any weather water drain out of the plug. Just the way I do it.

Thanks, I will definitely be draining the L/U unit now. I wasn't aware it was an annual thing, but now that I do, it will be added to my closing procedures. I actually disconnect the unit from the trim rams and let it hang freely. This way there is no pressure on anything for the winter.

 

[machboat]

Lots of great advice here. I think I only saw one other reference to a battery tender and I would highly recommend one. I keep the one on my boat plugged in year round. It is really nice knowing your batteries are always topped off. My boat came with one and it didn't work nearly as well as the aftermarket one I bought. PM me if you want the brand.

 

[roffey]

just curious as to how you drain the lower unit on an I/O. I just put the outdrive down and it drains, I don't know of any other way to drain it unless you mean drain the oil?

 

[H20Rat]

just curious as to how you drain the lower unit on an I/O. I just put the outdrive down and it drains, I don't know of any other way to drain it unless you mean drain the oil?

Think he meant drain the oil, in case any water found its way in. (if you have that much water, draining it is only the start of the fix!)

 

[roffey]

thanks, thought I might have been missing a step.

 

[Old Ironmaker]

I have outboards and haven't anything for tips on an I/O. I do run "plumbers anti freeze" through the engines until it runs pink. 5 bucks worth of Plumbers anti-freeze helps me sleep in February.

I do a lot of preventative maintenance before putting her away. Lower end lube oil change, new plugs soaked in oil, fuel filter etc. I have a fairly long list. That way all I have to do is pull off the shrink wrap and go fishing without didling around with anxiety. I always spend the coin to shrink wrap as it is stored outside mere feet from Lake Erie. I have seen guys boats worn to the bare aluminum or glass from home made tarp set ups slapping a billion or more times in Great Lake winds.

What I do that many don't is throw plumbers anti freeze down all 3 livewell drains. If there happens to be a dip in any of the lines I can't see from a season of pounding waves I know I have replaced that water with anti freeze.

I also leave the drain plug out. There is enough moisture in the air to load the bottom of a hull with gallons of water during the winter. I will tape a piece of window screen across the hole to keep Mickey Mouse and his pals out.

Through out the boat I put shavings of Irish Spring soap in small plastic food holders with holes punched into them. For some reason wild life hates Irish Spring soap. I will sprinkle shavings of the Irish Spring on the ground too around the boat. I don't know why it works but it does. Maybe it works the same way Deer gear on the front of the car and truck works because I have never hit a Deer.

 

[Patfromny]

Moth balls under the boat will work too for keeping the mice away. Irish spring is an interesting trick. I'll have to try that this year when I close my rv. They love to get inside and reek (or maybe squeek?) Havoc.

 

[Old Ironmaker]

Moth balls under the boat will work too for keeping the mice away. Irish spring is an interesting trick. I'll have to try that this year when I close my rv. They love to get inside and reek (or maybe squeek?) Havoc.

Pat, I used to use Moth Balls then someone told me about the bar soap, smells much better in the spring inside the boat, I don't like moth balls on the ground in case the neighbours pets eat one, they aren't the smartest pets around.

 

[roffey]

You guys most likely know this but... you really should not use plumbers antifreeze in a boat or RV. It is really hard on the environment and the water when you put your boast back in the lake. I suspect the amount you would use in a O/B would be minimal and have no real impact but a I/O or inboard would, just saying for other reading these last couple of posts.

 

[oldjeep]

You guys most likely know this but... you really should not use plumbers antifreeze in a boat or RV. It is really hard on the environment and the water when you put your boast back in the lake. I suspect the amount you would use in a O/B would be minimal and have no real impact but a I/O or inboard would, just saying for other reading these last couple of posts.

Plumbers antifreeze is propylene glycol same as RV/Marine antifreeze. It has to be since it gets dumped into sanitary sewer.