Won't start.....help!!!

[jamesselby]

Hi

I am attempting to get a Evinrude Fisherman up and running.

I've never used it before but I know it was working 4 years ago as the elderly gentleman who is letting me use it use to pop up and down the Thames in it!

I'm guessing the choke should be out, pump some fuel to the engine, make sure it's in neutral (I guess there is neutral and forward?) then pull the start pull???

However when I do this nothing seems to happen!

The spark plugs seem to be fairly new looking, I gave the a clean as well. I'm not sure how I check if a spark is being created?

The only other thing I can think of is the fuel in the petrol can which will be 4 years old as well is lost is bang.......to get it running. I do intend on getting new fuel etc but wanted to check the motor works first.

Any ideas or suggestions would be great!

 

[Vic.S]

Re: Won't start.....help!!!

Tell us the model number ( should be on a plate on the transom clamp bracket) and we can check the year.

Discard all old fuel and be prepared to clean the carb. Once we know the age we can tell you the correct fuel and oil mixture. Dont try to use 4 year old fuel!

Check the sparks initially by removing the plugs and the holding against the cylinder head with the leads connected pull it over and look for a spark at the plug.
But you really need to ensure that you can get a 9mm spark from the leads.

Yes open tank vent, pump the bulb to fill the carb, pull the choke knob, select neutral gear open the throttle a little ( there may be an interlock that will block the starter operation if its open too far)

Do not run it dry or you will wreck the water pump impeller .. set it up in a dustbin or tank full of water:



Read http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=158086

For good boating advice in the UK go to www.ybw.com/forums

BTW you are aware of all the licensing requirements for boating on the non-tidal Thames I trust

 

[jamesselby]

Re: Won't start.....help!!!

Well.....I've found 3 numbers so hope you experts can help me!

Serial Number : 6003B C 73172

Inside the cover there are two numbers:

1) Facing upwards : 312714

2) By the carb below a [M] is C0073172

 

[Vic.S]

Re: Won't start.....help!!!

6003B is the model number and it tells us that it is a 1970 model (C 73172 is the actual serial number)

Fuel mix is therefore 50:1

Near enough 1 pint if TCW3 2 stroke outboard oil in 6 galls

but being outside the USA you will have heard of litres and millilitres so for you it is 20 mls of oil per litre of petrol ( 100 mls in 5 litres) Ordinary unleaded petrol.

BTW Willsmarine in Kingsbridge Devon and Oakley Marine in Brighton are both good for mail order spares. Google will find them

Parts diagrams at http://shop2.evinrude.com/Index.aspx?s1=7ad21726f1fa8e52b69e05b8bf6c7f8d&catalog_id=0&siteid=1

 

[jamesselby]

Re: Won't start.....help!!!

So now we know the model and year, can someone suggest a plan of action to get this outboard running?

A step by step guide to follow would be really great!

What I can't work out is where to look for this gear box oil, or how to then replace it and what with!?!?!

Down towards the propeller I can see one screw below the propeller on the side, then 2 above the propeller on the side holding a small plate and then a larger screw just above those!

What the best way to test to make sure it's sparking?

How to clean the carb?

As you can see I'm completely new to this outboard world! I am however fairly good with car engines so should be able to follow some good instructions.

I wish there were some good You Tube Evinrude service videos....there's an idea for one of you!

 

[combat]

Re: Won't start.....help!!!

To check for spark take each plug out of the motor and hold it near the block while pulling the rope...but not hard enough to start it...

You might also want to check compression, if there's not enough compression it won't start regardless if there is spark and fuel.

Might also want to pull the carb off and clean it really well, if it was sitting for 4 years it needs to be cleaned. And with the fuel being 4 years old I don't think it will start...you need to get new fuel/oil mix.

 

[jamesselby]

Re: Won't start.....help!!!

Ok, I'll check for a spark tomorrow....if there isn't a spark what do I do?

Does anyone have instructions on removing and cleaning the carb?

How would you test compression?

I couldn't seem to get the fly wheel off earlier, instructions? Only if anything worth looking at or fixing.

Anyone give me the instructions for best practice on starting an outboard? I wasn't sure if the throttle should be open or not?

 

[Vic.S]

Re: Won't start.....help!!!

First thing is to do a compression test. It'll probably run at 60 psi, run better at 80psi but over 100psi would be good.

Next verify that you have two good sparks, as i have already indicated. Just as you would with a car engine. Use a spark tester if you can
If no sparks then you will have to find out why not. You'll need to pull the flywheel ( harmonic balancer puller required for that ) inspect the coils and the points as well as the HT leads ( points gap 0.020" or 0.5 mm)

AFAIK there is no stop button but if there is ( one may have been added even if not original) check that it is not shorting.

Plugs BTW should be Champion J6C gapped at 0.030", 0.7 to 0.8mm, although the originals would have been J4J. (Personally I would have no qualms about using NGK B6S if Champions are difficult to find)

If spark is Ok and you still cannot start it using fresh fuel then turn your attention to the carb. Try spraying some fuel mix directly into the carb (Starting fluid is not recommended because it contains no oil) If it fires and runs briefly then it confirms most other things are Ok and that the carb may need a clean. Dismantle carefully as you would with car carb and clean all passages and jets. Ideally rebuild with a kit if one is available.

The instructions for setting and adjusting the slow running mixture screw are in Joe Reeves' item on the Engine FAQs board at http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=167352

You ask about the oil in the gear box. Identify the identical broad headed and slotted screws ( # 22 in the parts diagram of the gear case) remove them to drain the oil. Do not remove any other screws esp the one low down on the stb'd side as that holds some of the gear-shift mechanism in place.

Provided the old oil is not milky looking, due to water, refill with a high viscosity outboard gear oil ( usually SAE 80W/90) You fill using a squeezable bottle via the bottom hole until oil flows from the top one. Honestly!
Refit the top screw then the bottom one. Use new washers on the screws.

Once its running you will have to ensure that it is pumping water and cooling properly. Be prepared to renew the water pump impeller if it has not been replaced in a while. While doing the pump impeller is the time to be thinking of changing gearbox seals if there was any evidence of water ingress.

 

[Vic.S]

Re: Won't start.....help!!!

Anyone give me the instructions for best practice on starting an outboard? I wasn't sure if the throttle should be open or not?

I already answered that. Read the earlier posts!

compression is tested using a compression tester ... same one as you would use for a car engine

Instructions can be found in one of the items on the Engine FAQs board. I recommend that you familiarise yourself with its contents as there are several items there which may help you.

 

[jamesselby]

Re: Won't start.....help!!!

Thanks everyone!

I'll have a tweak tomorrow and see if I can get it fired up!

One last question...well for tonight! If the gear oil is milky suggesting water has mixed then what do you do? Flush it and replace oil? Or just pump in new oil?

 

[jamesselby]

Re: Won't start.....help!!!

Oh also, if the compression is low how do I go about fixing that?

 

[Vic.S]

Re: Won't start.....help!!!

One last question...well for tonight! If the gear oil is milky suggesting water has mixed then what do you do? Flush it and replace oil? Or just pump in new oil?

Depends how bad and perhaps if its saltwater or fresh water. A small amount of freshwater I would allow to drain thoroughly and refill. A large amount of salt water I would flush out with some cheap automotive engine oil.

BUT if its getting water in you need to determine how and fix it. Either pressure and vacuum test to determine which seals are leaking or just replace the whole lot regardless

Oh also, if the compression is low how do I go about fixing that?

Rebore, new pistons, new rings .. just like you would for a car engine.

But the Seafoam decarb treatment described on the engine FAQs board might help. Dunno where you'd get Seafoam in the Uk though eBay perhaps or maybe have to find an alternative .. Redex ??

If the compression is so low that a rebore is necessary .. its not worth it. It will cost more than the engine is worth.
You'd sell it in the USA I expect but in the Uk you'll have job to give away an engine that old.

BTW If I were you I'd remove those links to your business interests from your signature before the moderators spot them

Rule 7 says

"Username, avatar or signature shall not contain business names, websites or personal info. Do not post your personal contact information such as Email address, home address, home phone numbers, etc. on the forums. If you must share that information with someone, use Private Messages."​

 

[jamesselby]

Re: Won't start.....help!!!

Thanks for advice as you can see I've removed my signature!

Update on the outboard:

Sparkplugs - Seem to be sparking ok and even better after a good clean.

Cylinder Head - Took the cylinder head off and it was really dirty so gave that a good clean and the ends of the cylinders.

Cylinder Pressure - Haven't been able to test as don't have the equipment but will go any purchase ?24.95 from Halfords if I have to.

Carburettor - Took the Carb out, striped and clean again it was fairly dirty.

Fuel - I've been to petrol station and got some fresh unleaded 95RON. Is there any benefit to using super unleaded 97RON?

Manual Starter - Here is my only problem, I had to remove it to get to a bolt to remove the carb. Problem is I can't seem to get it back together now so that the spring pulls the starter cord back in! I can tell it's one of those things that there is a special, probably simple way to do it but I'm struggling.....any help!?!

 

[Vic.S]

Re: Won't start.....help!!!

No benefit in using super unleaded. 95 RON is more than adequate for low compression ratio 2 strokes.

With the starter I think you will have to remove the cord, wind the spring up ( I think it is 16 turns ) then refit the cord.
I know I looked at mine some time ago to be sure I'd know how to replace a broken cord but I forget what I decided ... cant look at it now, it's on the boat.

You might have to experiment with the number of turns to pre-wind the spring unless someone comes to the rescue. It needs to be tight enough to rewind the cord but not too tight or you'll break the spring.
Other wise post the question as a new topic... some one will know the answer.

 

[Cap'n Chaos]

Re: Won't start.....help!!!

The 1965 6HP Fisherman manual states 16.5 turns counterclockwise.... it also states....

Do not oil the gear or spool, this will attract dirt, causing pinion to bind on spool.

 

[jamesselby]

Re: Won't start.....help!!!

Thanks I managed to get it back together! Just one of those jobs that once you've done it once you could do it again in 5mins!

So as things stand!

I've cleaned the carb, cylinder head, fuel lines, spark plugs, I have new fuel/oil. I checked the gear oil and it can out like white/yellow slime so I've left both the drain hole and check hole open and currently letting it all drain out. Tomorrow I'll go and get some gear oil (someone mention earlier the best one) Am I right in thinking you fill the oil from the bottom and when it start to flow out of the top hole it filled???

Other than that and what I've already done can anyone think of anything else that needs doing?

I'm praying I don't have to take the fly wheel off as that will cost my money to buy the tool!

 

[jamesselby]

Re: Won't start.....help!!!

How hard would it be to fit the following:

1) Electric Start?

2) Ability to charge a 12v battery to power lights etc

 

[samo_ott]

Re: Won't start.....help!!!

On a 6hp neither are possible.

(without extensive custom modifications)

 

[Vic.S]

Re: Won't start.....help!!!

There would not be room under the flywheel for the lighting or charging coil on a points ignition motor. It is possible with later engines with CD ignition however. My 6 hp has battery charging.

If you are a good inventor start with the fact that some small engines of far Eastern origin have the lighting/charging coil mounted outside the flywheel. Let us know what you devise!

Electric starting not available for any OMC engines smaller than 9.9 AFAIK.

 

[jamesselby]

Re: Won't start.....help!!!

Interesting, I'll have to do some research!

So if I want to have lights for using the boat at night what's the best option? Big marine battery that I just charge use and then recharge a home?

I had another tinkle this evening and I've got to say I'm not sure the spark is that great! It seems bloody hard to hold the spark near the body of the engine while pulling the starter....any tips?

If there isn't enough spark what's the most likely issues?