WOT issues with my 85 hp force

Aggitated

Seaman
Joined
Apr 18, 2012
Messages
61
Hello everyone I have been sick over the last few weeks and haven?t been able to work on my boat motor. I had a life threatening blood clot in my leg. Somehow working on sick boat just doesn?t hold a candle to over my health. However, I was able to work on her some over the last few weeks.
I have WOT issues with my 85 hp, 88 year model force outboard. The motor idles fine, but put her in gear and give a little throttle and she misfires. Much has been done to correct the problem, and I?m running out of things to try.
First, I?ve used spark test lights to see if the motor is losing fire when the miss occurs, and it is firing. I think any electronic problem can be eliminated. A new stator was installed by a ?force mechanic? back in Feb. I question the validity of a new stator, as I don?t think my old one was bad. I?ll deal with that issue later. I?ve switched coils, switched C.D. modules and still the same thing, misfire. There is no loss of spark when the miss occurs. I?ve checked and cleaned the entire engine wiring harness connections (terminal block) just to CMA.
So that leaves one thing, fuel delivery system. First I started with clean tank fresh gas, new gas lines, and new primer bulb, no good. Then I replaced the fuel pump diaphragm, and gasket, still no good. Next I had the carbs cleaned and reeds checked and set while I had the carbs off, not. However, I did notice a leak at the gasket at the adapter plate and power head, which was blown out. I replaced it and put new silicone around the bottom of the adapter, took her out yesterday thinking that had to be the problem, but alas still misfiring. Any thoughts as to what I may have missed? The old man who worked on carbs just took them apart, blew carb cleaner and air through them as no new parts were installed. Was this adequate? Should I go back into the carbs and have them rebuilt and cleaned professionally with ultra-sound? (I have a repair shop in my area that uses ultra sound to clean their rebuilds). Bottom line is I still have a misfiring motor that no one around here want?s to work on. I need help. Thanks to anyone with any suggestion/solutions.
 

jerryjerry05

Supreme Mariner
Joined
May 7, 2008
Messages
18,074
Re: WOT issues with my 85 hp force

Looks like the only thing you didn't do is a compression test.
All electrical connections tight?
Bare wires?
What condition were the carbs?
High speed jets dirty.J
 

Aggitated

Seaman
Joined
Apr 18, 2012
Messages
61
Re: WOT issues with my 85 hp force

Did a compression test all three were around 115 according to my guage, however, compression test was done by "mechanic" and he got 145 on all three cylinders. Don't know nor can I explain the difference between his test and mine. But either way there was less than a few pound difference between cyl. No bare or lose wires. I've gone through and soldered all the trigger wires at the wire/to connector. As far as the carbs go they were bad dirty when dude cleaned them. I took them off and removed the bowls, lots of fine particles in the bottom of them. I don't know about the high speed jets, I wasn't there when this was done. All I have is this guys word that they (carbs) are O.K. Motor Idles fine, and carbs are senstive to adjustment. Any change of the idle jets affects motor idling. Should I go back through the carbs with kits, and a soaking in cleaner as this wasn't done by old school dude? Boat has water/filter seperator installed. I'm at a loss now.
 

pnwboat

Rear Admiral
Joined
Oct 8, 2007
Messages
4,251
Re: WOT issues with my 85 hp force

Have you had the ignition timing checked?
 

Aggitated

Seaman
Joined
Apr 18, 2012
Messages
61
Re: WOT issues with my 85 hp force

I have checked myself, and its off a few degrees. checked at WOT and idle. Thanks for your help. My marks are 1/4 inch off, at both places WOT and idle, should I change to be dead on the money?
 

pnwboat

Rear Admiral
Joined
Oct 8, 2007
Messages
4,251
Re: WOT issues with my 85 hp force

It should be dead on but I doubt very much that it will cause the problem that you're having. It would have to be way off.

I have seen on occasion where a bad rectifier has caused some issues when trying to run at higher RPM's under a load. Have you checked it?
 

Aggitated

Seaman
Joined
Apr 18, 2012
Messages
61
Re: WOT issues with my 85 hp force

No I haven't, I agree the timing is not that far off enough to cause this type of aggrivation. Yes, I'll recheck and set. How do I check the rectifer, or since they are reasonably cheap just put a new one on?

I have to step otu for a little bit this afternoon be back this evening. Thanks

Are radio shack rectifier's the same as the ones sold at boat parts places?
 

Jiggz

Captain
Joined
Oct 23, 2009
Messages
3,909
Re: WOT issues with my 85 hp force

No need to buy a new one if the old one is still working perfectly. Just disconnect the rectifier for now while you are troubleshooting. Disconnect the input wires (yellow/green) and the black wire from ground. Try again and if the problem still persists, try adjusting the timing (retard) instead of the usual 32 degree dynamic advance go to 25 degrees or even 20 degrees. If the performance improves you might want to verify all components related to timing make sure they are all zero'ed out. If the problem still persists, try going the other way by advancing to 37 degrees. double check the spark control rod connecting with the tower shaft make sure it doesn't have any freeplay. If problem still persists, do a dynamic timing check under load with a timing light. Verify the timing constantly moves with the throttle and not jumping everywhere. You can do this by slowly increasing engine rpm with gear engaged. If the timing is perfect then it's time to check the lower unit. Remove all plugs, rotate flywheel by hand and it should rotate freely, Engage gear and rotate by hand again. It should be a little heavy but should still move freely. If there is any binding, it's time to check the lower unit.
 

Aggitated

Seaman
Joined
Apr 18, 2012
Messages
61
Re: WOT issues with my 85 hp force

Thank you will try this this week. I'll check lower unit today. I have had a notion that this (lower unit) might be the problem.

Well I just checked the lower unit, it spins as freely in gear as in neutral. There is absolutly no binding what-so-ever, However, I did break the tip of the shift rod last year at the connector, I had the rod welded and built back up by a machine shop and the hole rebored, the did a good job. The motor was acting up before this and I don't think there is a relationship between the the rebuilt shift rod and the engine spipping.
 
Last edited:

riptorn

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Mar 8, 2012
Messages
433
Re: WOT issues with my 85 hp force

Hi Aggitated, I am new at this game with my 88 85hp. Yesterday I was trying to start it for an hour. I poured gas in each cylinder and accidentally poured too much in #2. When I fired it up it back fired. I was thinking one of your carbs might be way out of adjustment or all need kits. Like I said, I am new to this motor. Could be something simple as that. I know it's not a gas problem because my motor will idle up and then down and stall.
My problem was the gas line quick disconnect was leaking bad. Hope this might help.
 

Jiggz

Captain
Joined
Oct 23, 2009
Messages
3,909
Re: WOT issues with my 85 hp force

Thank you will try this this week. I'll check lower unit today. I have had a notion that this (lower unit) might be the problem.

Well I just checked the lower unit, it spins as freely in gear as in neutral. There is absolutly no binding what-so-ever, However, I did break the tip of the shift rod last year at the connector, I had the rod welded and built back up by a machine shop and the hole rebored, the did a good job. The motor was acting up before this and I don't think there is a relationship between the the rebuilt shift rod and the engine spipping.

If such is the case, it's time to do a dynamic timing test with a timing light. It's the only I thing I can see to remove all causes of electrical or timing problems. If this test comes out to be perfect or without problem, then we can focus on carbs and fuel system. Which I think is far easier to troubleshoot than timing and sparks. So far this is my understanding of your problem. The engine runs and idles perfectly in disengage mode or gear disengaged. This is even after you rev it up using the towershaft or the high throttle either on muffs or on the water. However, as soon as you engage the gear and try to advance the throttle, it starts misfiring. And you checked the sparks on all spark plugs even during misfiring there is spark in each plug. Are these still the symptoms of your problem?
 

Aggitated

Seaman
Joined
Apr 18, 2012
Messages
61
Re: WOT issues with my 85 hp force

Gee its early and my wife is fussin about me being up. Jiggz, you are correct, motor idles fine with ears or in the water, however put in gear and within a few hundred rpm she starts misfiring. Taking her to the lake today with a timming lite, and a DVA meter, to do some tests. I am going to try to isolate the cly. that is blurbing. The problem has to be either a coil gone bad, CD mod., reeds, or carb. Just a matter of finding out what. I'll check dynamic timing while on the water tommorow. Thanks D.W.H. ps the fish have caught a break this year lol

ps. A couple of weeks ago I used cyl. test lights and it looked as if all cyl. were firing when missing. Going to back track with timing lite later today just to make sure that they are all firing (cma). If they are due to process of elimination it has to be a fuel problem, my guess would be a carb not right. thanks I'll repost what the results are when I get in this afternoon. pps. I have clymer book and all specs.
 

Aggitated

Seaman
Joined
Apr 18, 2012
Messages
61
Re: WOT issues with my 85 hp force

Well I made it to the water today. I assertained that the lower unit is making a metalic grinding noise and no 3 cyl. is bugging out. The electronics appear to be working as they should. Motor is now a project for another day. Thanks everyone for your help. DWH
 
Top