Would like to know how this happened?

Snowfish

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Jul 3, 2009
Messages
234
Re: Would like to know how this happened?

so I guess that when I'm hauling a 50,000 lb excavator I can safely pull it w a geo and don't need any tiedowns at all.... :rolleyes:

That might be a little awkward.:eek:

I think this is about it.
Geo with Trailer 011.jpg
OK, it never did hit the road. Just had to move stuff around.
 

Tugs

Cadet
Joined
Apr 17, 2010
Messages
7
Re: Would like to know how this happened?

Years ago I had a 20 foot Chaparral Cuddy Cabin. The ramp that I launched from in South N.J. was only about a mile from my house and ONE time and only one time did I leave to head home without putting all of my tie downs on. That trip I had to turn right on Rt 9 to head south and after I pulled out I stopped to check the boat and found that it had moved back almost six inches. I was afraid to even touch the winch or the cable because that was one tight wire. I used a come a long to move it back up.
 

MAXXIE

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 26, 2009
Messages
556
Re: Would like to know how this happened?

I volunteered to take the boater safety coarse here in Pa., required if under 16 yo I think, but anyway, there was a large section on how to hook up a boat to the trailer, do a safety check & how to properly tow a boat on the open road. Just in response to Hustler04. I'm very happy that I took the coarse because I learned quite a bit from it. I've never owned a boat before this one.
 

Thalasso

Commander
Joined
Jan 18, 2011
Messages
2,879
Re: Would like to know how this happened?

smokeon the water. I have seen some heavy eqiup. going down the road and might as well had no securement because the chains were flopping in the wind.
 

gtochris

Senior Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Aug 4, 2010
Messages
742
Re: Would like to know how this happened?

An Astro is a VERY stout tow vehicle and I'm positive would out-perform many modern "cross-overs" yet many people see that as a "Minivan", few people know it had a 5,500lb capacity!

All it takes is one quick menuver and you can loose the entire thing... trying to avoid road debris or someone who cuts you off... Some things you cant help. Granted in an average accident your boat will probably stay on the trailer IF properly secured, however jackknifing might just toss everything about.

Another theory- Our "Plaining Hulls" can climb atop the water at only 20-30 MPH, I wonder with all that wind swirling around at 65-70MPH, if boats are generating any type of negative force against the road/ trailer?
 

smokeonthewater

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Dec 3, 2009
Messages
9,838
Re: Would like to know how this happened?

smoke on the water. I have seen some heavy eqiup. going down the road and might as well had no securement because the chains were flopping in the wind.

And those would be considered improperly secured loads..... I never let anyone remove my chains.... If you release one of my binders wrong it will take your head off....

I once saw a guy juggle chain saws.... they were running full throttle and did have chains on them..... just because someone does it does NOT mean it isn't dangerous
 

rentprop1

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Aug 30, 2008
Messages
358
Re: Would like to know how this happened?

Seeing this, especially with the transom straps still attached, just makes me wince!

yet everyone here thinks they are a save all....geesh.......please explain how 2 little web straps are gonna secure a 3000 lb boat plus the g-forces applied to it during a trailer swerve ?? , if anything it might keep the trailer under the boat, but I wouldn't hold my breath
 

smokeonthewater

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Dec 3, 2009
Messages
9,838
Re: Would like to know how this happened?

yet everyone here thinks they are a save all....geesh.......please explain how 2 little web straps are gonna secure a 3000 lb boat plus the g-forces applied to it during a trailer swerve ?? , if anything it might keep the trailer under the boat, but I wouldn't hold my breath

Nooooooo they are definitely NOT a save all.... rather they are the BARE LEGAL MINIMUM requirement..... There is nobody saying that you can't add more straps to secure the load better.
 

mnypitboat

Lieutenant Junior Grade
Joined
May 31, 2010
Messages
1,091
Re: Would like to know how this happened?

yet everyone here thinks they are a save all....geesh.......please explain how 2 little web straps are gonna secure a 3000 lb boat plus the g-forces applied to it during a trailer swerve ?? , if anything it might keep the trailer under the boat, but I wouldn't hold my breath

Not necesarily, but it is better than towing with just a winch attatched. NO?

I have 2 straps on the rear, the winch, a chain, and another strap up front. Is there a better way?
 

Silvertip

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 22, 2003
Messages
28,771
Re: Would like to know how this happened?

Facing the wrong way indicates a fish-tail event happened. That happens because there is not enough tongue weight or a quick lane change got the rig to fish-tailing and once that happens, many drivers make the situation worse with inappropriate corrective action. With no tie downs and only a wiinch strap holding the rig, it gets pitched off the trailer. About a year ago i had an Explorer sail by me towing a cargo trailer, As I crested the next hill I was amazed to see the Explorer upside down in the center median and the trailer sitting upright on the right side of the freeway. The newspaper the next day indicated that the driver tried to avoid a deer. The trailer was the "tail" that unltimately was "wagging the dog". I've also seen a utility trailer spread a load of gravel on the freeway at 45 MPH as the car towing it was wagged by the trailer that obviously had negative tongue weight.
 

jeeperman

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Aug 2, 2001
Messages
1,513
Re: Would like to know how this happened?

yet everyone here thinks they are a save all....geesh.......please explain how 2 little web straps are gonna secure a 3000 lb boat plus the g-forces applied to it during a trailer swerve ?? , if anything it might keep the trailer under the boat, but I wouldn't hold my breath
This falls into the catagory of having the proper equipment for the load involved.
Everyone buys a trailer and or new tires based on capacity (I hope).
Yet many people that do actually use tiedowns, many times use tiedowns that are not rated for the job at hand.
Using kite string for a tiedown does not meet the requirements.
In a situation where a D.O.T. Cop is looking to issue tickets, many will be eligible for a citation for improper equipment at the minimum.
 

Bamaman1

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
May 15, 2011
Messages
1,895
Re: Would like to know how this happened?

Getting back to the original thread:

Mini vans are fantastic vehicles if you're needing to carry 7 people with reasonably good fuel economy. For a young family, they're great carrying kids to the ball fields, and their bodies are very structurally sound. Some mini vans are now very powerful at almost 300 horsepower.

Their limitations are they're very heavy @ 4500 lbs.--and they have weak suspensions and small brakes. Mini vans also have short wheel bases, which affects handling a trailer. All new mini vans are primarily front wheel drives, but some have AWD where the rear end is a secondary drive axle. Axles and transmissions are very lightly engineered. Mini vans are just about loaded to the max--just pulling themselves around (without any passengers.)

Live rear axle vehicles, like a pickup truck, full size SUV or full size van, are what's needed for pulling a heavy trailer. It's not good enough to have 300 horsepower, but you've got to have the suspension/brakes to start, stop, go around turns, and get you out of a boat ramp without spinning the front wheels. There's no replacement for 10% tongue weight on the trailer hitch--to avoid jack knifes.

As far as tie downs go, any boat needs to be tied down to the trailer at both the transom and at the bow. I hate a load shifting--taking away all tongue weight.

I speak from experience--bad experience. There's nothing scarier than looking in your rear view mirror and seeing your trailer swinging 90 degrees back and forth--right before your tow vehicle is flipped upside down. Touch your brake and the swinging gets even worse. Wouldn't you hate to see your trailer pass you going down a hill after it comes off your trailer ball? How do you feel when other drivers point to tell you your ATV is in the middle of the road because the rope securing it broke?

Towing trailers is a very serious business. Some people just don't have safety ingrained into their brains.
 

Home Cookin'

Fleet Admiral
Joined
May 26, 2009
Messages
9,715
Re: Would like to know how this happened?

The tow vehicle being undersized does not cause a boat to come off the trailer. However, since it is more prone to fish-tailing, and lacks the weight and wheel base to correct it, it might contribute to some, but not all, load losses.

Boats, like any loads, can often be trailered without proper tie downs, with no mishaps, if there are no sudden stops, turns, etc. This is true with roller trailers b/c the winch is there to hold it on. So again, the lack of tie down itself won't cause the boat to fall off, and even sudden acceleration (of a minivan--big deal!) won't leave it behind. By the same token, if you don't have a safety chain, the boat, for that fact alone, will not come off the trailer.

The proper tow strap won't keep the boat on the trailer in extreme circumstances (as the pitcure shows).

Not every boat coming off a trailer is due to the operator not doing something right. Equipment fails unexpectedly. I had the whole bow eye pull out, leaving the winch cable and safety chain dangling unattached; the boat rolled back about a foot (roller trailer) but the strap (belly band) kept it on. So I resent the statement that anyone who loses a boat off a trailer is a moron.

here's the big BUT: first, you have the correct equipment (tow vehicle, tie down) not for the easy or uneventful trip, but for the inevitable minor problems: sudden stops, swerves, pot holes, inclines, etc. You have back ups like the safety chain because the winch cogs are likely to fail and are unreliable, and redundancy for the same reason. You have safety devices like straps that are strong enough for the typical problem, but no one can cover the extreme events. It's the same concept as motorcycle helmets--great at 25 mph; useless at 70.

So back to the original scene: the boat was clearly too big for the vehicle; he encountered a problem that would ahve been minor for a proper rig but was catastrophic for his; the boat slid off and spun around. That to me suggests fishtailing that broke whatever straps he had, and my guess is he didn't have all four devices employed: safety chain, winch lock, 2 rear straps. It is almost as likely that he didn't have anything but the winch; it popped loose as they are want to do, the boat slid back on each bump until it tilted, causing fishtails, slid off and spun when a chine dug in.
 

smokeonthewater

Fleet Admiral
Joined
Dec 3, 2009
Messages
9,838
Re: Would like to know how this happened?

and MAYBE on the pic with the straps hanging he even cut his straps and hung em on the transom after the accident to try to get out of a ticket LOL J/K..... maybe


The logic of don't use em cause they could fail is like taking off across the desert on foot and refusing a canteen of water because it might not be enough.... you STILL take it
 

V153

Lieutenant Commander
Joined
Apr 16, 2011
Messages
1,764
Re: Would like to know how this happened?

so I guess that when I'm hauling a 50,000 lb excavator I can safely pull it w a geo and don't need any tiedowns at all.... :rolleyes:
Not so long as the stereo & AC in the Geo work.
 

Home Cookin'

Fleet Admiral
Joined
May 26, 2009
Messages
9,715
Re: Would like to know how this happened?

Why would anyone waste more than a few seconds thinking about putting a hitch on a Geo? lol :facepalm:

for a small utility trailer, a canoe or light sailboat, or for "yard" use. Since I keep boats on trailers at a place out of town, with its own ramp, I put a hitch on every car, not for highway use, but just at the house. Didn't even rig lights.

When I was in New Zealand/Australia, where the cars are small b/c the gas is expensive, lots of people made up for the loss of space with small enclosed trailers--just adding trunk space.
 

Scott Chinsota

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Apr 18, 2011
Messages
216
Re: Would like to know how this happened?

if it wasn't for the wieght of the motor, they would take flight. hurricane charley missed me by about 8 miles. been here for 18 years. when a hurricane comes, i secure the boat by adding 100 gallons of water. placard says weight limit 800 lbs. hate doin it but 140 mph wind will throw a car. charley threw my neighbors 2 boats in a pile in the corner of his backyard. not pretty. mine...just sat there.
 
Top