Wrench on the flywheel nut to turn the crank?

[yam350yfm]

Okay, I have been trying to get a 1957 model fd-11 Johnson 18hp running again. I have had several suggestions to "put a wrench on the flywheel" and turn it back and forth to see if it will free up.

I pulled the rope starter housing and that exposes the flywheel nut. When I put a 3/4" wrench on it if I turn to the left it backs off, if I turn to the right it does not turn the motor through. I did not apply much pressure, as I am somewhat conflicted as to if this is good advice.

Is this the correct place to try to get a wrench on the crank, or do I need to pull the flywheel and the armature plate assembly before I try to turn the crank through with a wrench?

I have tried penetrating oil and it pulled through part way, almost 1 full pull of the rope, then locked up again.

Any suggestions are appreciated.

 

[rndn]

Re: Wrench on the flywheel nut to turn the crank?

Go ahead an turn the flywheel. Spray some oil into each cylinder to help get it moving again.

 

[tmcalavy]

Re: Wrench on the flywheel nut to turn the crank?

Yeah, after you pull the plugs and let the piston/cylinders soak a day or so with penetrating oil. Sounds like it froze from sitting and one jug has a bad or broken ring. May not be the powerhead though, could be the lower unit froze up. Only way to really tell is drop the lower unit just enough to get the driveshaft out of the powerhead and then see if the bottom end (prop) turns both ways...push down and pull up on the shift rod to change gears. There's a plate on one side of leg with two screws. Remove that and you'll see where the shift rod connects/unconnects to drop the lower unit. Go easy putting it back, the rods have to align with the connector just right or you'll strip the fastening screw threads. Bet it's the powerhead though. Let it soak with oil in the cylinders and then rock back and forth with the wrench on the flywheel nut...if it still scrapes, that's a really BAD thing, rebuild time.

 

[tashasdaddy]

Re: Wrench on the flywheel nut to turn the crank?

agree pull the plugs, lay the motor with plug hole up, and put some penetraing oil in it. drop the lower unit. no need to if it still doesn't turn pull the heads. no need to scar a cylinder unless it is necessary.

 

[Ranger 330V]

Re: Wrench on the flywheel nut to turn the crank?

what kind of oil are you using?? PB Blaster or SeaFoam Deep Creep are a couple of the best....I have seen PB Blaster do some AMAZING things.

 

[yam350yfm]

Re: Wrench on the flywheel nut to turn the crank?

Starting back in November I have periodically sprayed PB blaster into the cylinders, then replace the plugs to let it soak for a couple of days at a time. I remove the plugs and try to pull it through, and it will not pull through. I have pretty much had the motor every which way except upside down in an effort to get the PB Blaster all around the piston. It has been laid down on either side, the front, the back, and it is now on a motor stand that I recently built.

I think the next step is to drain the lower unit oil and see what comes out because a couple of people have suggested doing that before pulling the power head. I will get to that sometime this week, not sure when.

A couple of other suggestions were to use Shell Rotella diesel oil in each cylinder because it supposedly will help deal with rust and has a high zinc content, whatever that will do for this problem. One other suggestion was to use compressed air to try to "blow" the oil past the rings.

Once I figure out why it is seized then I can determine what I want to put into fixing it, versus parting out the motor and tank, then selling the hull and finding something else......

Still not ready to give up on it as according to many sources these things are really bullet proof.

 

[wavrider]

Re: Wrench on the flywheel nut to turn the crank?

Drop the lower unit,
Just looking at the lube will not determine if the lu is froze or if the power head is, only way to know for sure is to seperate them.

 

[yam350yfm]

Re: Wrench on the flywheel nut to turn the crank?

That makes sense. At a high level when I looked at this thing I believe there were 6 or 7 bolts that hold the LU to the power head. Beyond that I assume there is some type of shifter linkage, not sure how that is connected to the LU. Any tips on separating the power head from LU is appreciated. Should I hit the fasteners with some PB Blaster a day or so ahead of time?

Also, any suggestions as to which is a better manual, Clymer or Seloc? Up until now I have only worked on Mercruiser I/O's so the whole outboard and 2 stoke thing is all new to me.

 

[wavrider]

Re: Wrench on the flywheel nut to turn the crank?

I have some seloc manuals for the v-4 crossflows, I have a factory manual for the 71 rude, factory any day
there were alot of them on ebay and also kencook.com
the money is worth the factory one,
seloc is more general where as factory is specific to your engine
not sure on your engine where the disconnect is, look on port side se if there is a cover with two screws, maybe be a linkage disconnect there.
One of the smaller engine guru's may pop in and reply
whatever you do do not remove the phillips head screw on the bottom of the foot, it holds the cradle for the clutch dog, if you remove it you will have to dissassemble the foot to get it back in place.

 

[Scaaty]

Re: Wrench on the flywheel nut to turn the crank?

Last FD11 (great motors when running) I got was froze too. No way it would break loose. All it took was either lousy storage (no me) to get moisture into it., or an internal water leak.
Doesn't take much rust to lock it up. Doubt VERY much its anything but the pistons rusted to the walls (ya got play in the driveline, it aint the lower).
Motors are easy to work on..pull the head or exhaust ports and have a look inside..

 

[tmcalavy]

Re: Wrench on the flywheel nut to turn the crank?

Yes put some penetrating oil on the LU bolts, aside from them you need to remove the small oblong plate on one side of the leg and disconnect the shift rod connector. Then the LU will come off. Go easy re-installing the connector, the shift rod has to be aligned right with the connector (use a big flashlight) or the nut will strip threads. Not a costly replacement, just an aggravating delay when you want to get on the water.

 

[yam350yfm]

Re: Wrench on the flywheel nut to turn the crank?

Okay, I took a quick look at things last night and sprayed the bolts that connect the LU to the power head, the head bolts, and the screws that hold the exhaust cover on. I think I will remove the exhaust cover first as that looks the easiest and is least likely to cause a cascade effect of other problems. I am hesitant to pull the LU without a manual. Just looking at the parts catalog it appears that I could cause some problems if I do not take it apart correctly.

 

[tmcalavy]

Re: Wrench on the flywheel nut to turn the crank?

LU is real easy, exhaust covers and waterjacket covers are not...you will probably twist off a bolt/nut without an impact driver...maybe even with one. When we say drop the lower unit, we mean drop the foot/gearcase off the leg...the long part between the powerhead and the gearcase/prop section.

 

[yam350yfm]

Re: Wrench on the flywheel nut to turn the crank?

Last night I pulled off the 2 individual covers on the side of the power head that expose the cylinders. When the covers are removed there are 3 small holes that show the pistons. I sprayed some PB Blaster on the sides of the pistons and let it sit for an hour or so, put a wrench on the crank nut, and with a slight tug it pulled right through. Looks like carbon buildup, not rust was what was causing things to stick. I then kept slowly turning it through while my son sprayed more PB Blaster in the cylinders both from the spark plug holes and through the side covers, then I used the compressor with a blower attachment to get the oil really in there. At first the oil was very black, but towards the end it was getting much cleaner. The pistons and rings had gone from a kind of black sticky coating to very clean. Once I get a couple of gaskets for the side covers I will replace them.

Next step is to check the coils, points, and carb. According to stickers in the engine cover it appears that the coils and points were changed in 1994. The engine was not run since 2004, so I assume with 10 years on those parts it is probably time to swap them for new ones.

I still need to drain and refill the lower unit. From reading the forums it looks like it would be time to put in a new impeller also.

Anything else I should look at next? Any specific order?

Oh, one last question. I plan to run synthetic 2 stroke. On the forums I have seen 16:1, 24:1, and 32:1 all recommended. The gas in my area has 10% ethanol in it so I will add sea foam or stabil. Anything I should look out for?

Thanks to all for your help and suggestions so far. I am working on this with my son who is about to turn 14. He built the engine stand for it last weekend, and is having fun working on this outboard with me. I told him there are 2 options, take it and pay somebody to get it running, or invest some time in it and learn how to work on it. It would be fast and easy to drop it by a shop, but then when something is out of whack out on the lake we won't know how to fix it.....

 

[zibzer]

Re: Wrench on the flywheel nut to turn the crank?

there are 2 options, take it and pay somebody to get it running, or invest some time in it and learn how to work on it. It would be fast and easy to drop it by a shop, but then when something is out of whack out on the lake we won't know how to fix it.....

That advice is what I live by

 

[tmcalavy]

Re: Wrench on the flywheel nut to turn the crank?

That's great...your boy will always remember this experience. With synthetic oil you can run 24:1 with no problems, original recommendation was 16:1 with oils of the day. Definitely pull the LU and change the impeller, and replace the LU gear lube. If it has good, strong, blue spark the coils are working, but should check them anyway...the coil casings crack with age. If it has no or weak spark, clean and regap the points to see if you get a strong blue spark back...sometimes that's all it takes. Carb is pretty simple to pull, clean and reinstall but work on a clean surface with paper on top so you can easily see, organize all the parts. Those Johnson 18's are great motors...wouldn't take anything for my 57.

 

[wavrider]

Re: Wrench on the flywheel nut to turn the crank?

My son and I recently did the same thing you are doing to a jw-10 3hp model.
the experience is great and my 14 yr old is strill in awe tha a motor that old still starts and runs, even on first pull.

check your points, may need to clean them, then use a spark tester to check the spark on the spark plug wires, see if they both spark.

Carb will need cleaning, and yes impeller replaced
All of the procedures are straight forward and not hard, need to have flywheel puller and #8 hardened bolts to remove the flywheel if you have to pull it, it will POP and jump off so be careful in removing it if you do,

donot forget once you get it running to perform a decarb to get all the rest of the nasty carbon out of the cylinders, enjoy the project.

 

[freddyray21]

Re: Wrench on the flywheel nut to turn the crank?

That's great...your boy will always remember this experience. With synthetic oil you can run 24:1 with no problems, original recommendation was 16:1 with oils of the day. Definitely pull the LU and change the impeller, and replace the LU gear lube. If it has good, strong, blue spark the coils are working, but should check them anyway...the coil casings crack with age. If it has no or weak spark, clean and regap the points to see if you get a strong blue spark back...sometimes that's all it takes. Carb is pretty simple to pull, clean and reinstall but work on a clean surface with paper on top so you can easily see, organize all the parts. Those Johnson 18's are great motors...wouldn't take anything for my 57.

I agree I love these old motors, but just wanted to clear something up. That motor was designed for run on 24:1 mixture. They recommended a heavier mixture for the first ten hours when new, but after that run them on 24:1 and they will be fine. I don't want to start a debate here as there are many threads on that. I just wanted to clarify what the original recommendation was.

 

[samo_ott]

Re: Wrench on the flywheel nut to turn the crank?

I use Penzoil Full Synthetic tc-w3 in my 50's 18's and all seems to work well. I get it at Walmart for $23/gallon.

 

[yam350yfm]

Re: Wrench on the flywheel nut to turn the crank?

Thanks for the specs on the oil mix and for the information on synthetic. I think that will be a better choice for less smoke.

I am a little concerned about the gas blend in my area...it is the "reformulated" fuel with up to 10% ethanol. The summer mix typically has that amount in it. From what I understand ethanol will absorb moisture, so Seafoam or Stabil is required. The other issue I hear from people is that the ethanol mix in the gas can cause vapor lock on engines with carbs.