Y'all see the ad for Evinrude E-tec on TV?

[waterinthefuel]

They had a drag race between a Yamaha 225, Merc 225, and E-tec 225 and the E-tec was fastest, hands down. How can 3 engines with the same propshaft horsepower run different speeds on the same boat?

 

[Chinewalker]

Re: Y'all see the ad for Evinrude E-tec on TV?

Several reasons...<br /> There is a bit of "fudge factor" built into the ratings measurements. I don't know the percentage offhand, but it's something in the neighborhood of 5-6%. So, it's possible that one 225 is actually only 215, another is 225, and another is 235. Also, as Mercury once did on their Hurricane 10s, horsepower can vary with RPM. For the sake of the argument, say all three motors are rated at 225 hp at 5500 RPM. But, perhaps the Evinrude actually makes 240 at 6000 RPM. Prop it to hit 6000 and you'll have that extra power. May not be the case, but it's possible... <br /> There are also differences in lower unit design. Some might be more hydrodynamic than others. Different gear ratios may come into play. If they set all motors at the same height with the same prop for the test, then it's possible that some gearcases were running deeper or higher than optimum. <br /> Also, torque plays a part, particularly where in the horsepower curve the most torque is made. Motors with good low-end torque may accelerate better, but lack a little on top end. Motors with higher end torque may have good mid-range acceleration.<br /> Lots of other things, too, but those are the most likely...<br />- Scott

 

[WillyBWright]

Re: Y'all see the ad for Evinrude E-tec on TV?

They probably prop the competitors to the low end of the max recommended RPMs and theirs at the top end.

 

[DJ]

Re: Y'all see the ad for Evinrude E-tec on TV?

How can 3 engines with the same propshaft horsepower run different speeds on the same boat?

Because one is quicker? <br /><br />Anyway, I'm sold on Bombi's rendition of DFI. We have two Sea Doos which have been FLAWLESS.<br /><br />I like their DFI offerings. Repowers will be those, in my book.

 

[cobra 3.0]

Re: Y'all see the ad for Evinrude E-tec on TV?

TWO strokes are always faster and generally lighter.

 

[gss036]

Re: Y'all see the ad for Evinrude E-tec on TV?

http://www.oceanskiffjournal.com/SubscriberContent/Articles/Vol01Issue05/General/ETEC1.aspx <br />Read this whole article for a better understanding of the issues.

 

[cobra 3.0]

Re: Y'all see the ad for Evinrude E-tec on TV?

Thanks for the article. That was a very informative read! By all counts, it confirms that BRP has produced a superior product.

 

[seahorse5]

Re: Y'all see the ad for Evinrude E-tec on TV?

Originally posted by WillyBWright:<br /> They probably prop the competitors to the low end of the max recommended RPMs and theirs at the top end.

Actually, the boats were set up by Ranger Boats for best top speeds and the test was "signed off" by a third party professional engineer who also testifies for both Merc and Yamaha in court cases.

 

[roscoe]

Re: Y'all see the ad for Evinrude E-tec on TV?

Best e-tec commercial is the newest one.<br />Where the guy with the 4 stroke can't launch his boat correctly, or dock, or navigate the harbor, because his motor has spent too much time in the shop for maintenance, and he has forgotten how to use his boat.

 

[PierBridge]

Re: Y'all see the ad for Evinrude E-tec on TV?

Originally posted by gss036:<br /> http://www.oceanskiffjournal.com/SubscriberContent/Articles/Vol01Issue05/General/ETEC1.aspx <br />Read this whole article for a better understanding of the issues.

They had a drag race between a Yamaha 225, Merc 225, and E-tec 225 and the E-tec was fastest, hands down. How can 3 engines with the same propshaft horsepower run different speeds on the same boat?

"So what's all the fuss about? If you haven't seen the infomercial, Evinrude basically goes over the E-TEC technology, explains the benefits, then does some side-by-side comparisons with competing products."<br /><br />"Who do you think comes out on top? Duuuh....You shouldn't be surprised to learn that E-TEC comes out on top in all the tests. After all, it IS their infomercial."<br /><br />"Like every infomercial, they can't tell you outright lies, but they can present their story in a way which seems to defy common sense, not to mention the laws of physics. And that's where the controversy lies." <br />

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Y'all see the ad for Evinrude E-tec on TV?

yep I gotta see that pair of 250's running to the gulf stream 2 a month for for three years with no maint.<br /> aint gonna happen. unless maybe they came out with magic oil.<br /> but if you dig about the fine print the maint schedule is based on 50 hours a year and your schedule may actually vary.<br /> as far as power think of the crank throws as levers. a two stroke applies pressure to the lever each time the piston is heading down a fourstroke its everyother. you tell me which can keep a load moving better.<br />omc and BRP have had driveshaft sealing issues for some years and not much has been done to address it. the impeller steadies the shaft and if it wears the shaft wobbles and the upper seal leaks. in three years of running the inlet the gearcase will most likly be filled with water.<br /> so time will tell<br /> most dead motors died of unnatuaral causes.<br /> usually bad fuel,water or overheat.<br /> in 30 years I have actually seen two commercial motors that wore out. the rest were killed.<br />it was bad enough with a maint schedule but BRP sales is leading folks to believe that ya hang it on the back and ignore it for 3 years.<br />6 years will tell us the story.

 

[gatorred]

Re: Y'all see the ad for Evinrude E-tec on TV?

run them 2 strokes like other's make them but this is on back cover of dealer's sales flyer <br /> http://photobucket.com/albums/f325/gatorer/omc-stuff/merk/?action=view&current=scan0007.jpg <br />what this mean did they still make two stroke's too

 

[cobra 3.0]

Re: Y'all see the ad for Evinrude E-tec on TV?

If BRP is making them like their skidoos and seedoos, watch out! They're number one for a reason!

 

[Kanadakid]

Re: Y'all see the ad for Evinrude E-tec on TV?

Rod,<br /><br />I totally agree with you, plus being a tech who sees this stuff tells me you are more than qualified.<br /><br />Here is my take. You can take almost any engine and run it lean to get the emission and MPG you want. Problem is its going to run hot.<br /><br />Hot engines don't last, I don't care what NASA alloys BRP uses.<br /><br />Here is some additional information I have picked up.<br /><br />The Bombardier family and parent company sold the recreational products division. E tec is no longer affiliated with the Bombardier corporation. They were dumped /sold.<br /><br />BRP was able to retain the name. My speculation is that a new name change just a couple years after the Bombardier buy out of OMC would scare to many folks and collapse the company.<br /><br />BRP has got to sell a lot of engines this the full court press with the ad campaigns.<br /><br /><br />Can't find a shred of financial information on the new BRP.<br /><br />The 7 year warranty is an aftermarket warranty.<br /><br />If I were buying an engine today, I would not fall for all this hype if i wanted an engine that was going to last.<br /><br />Time will tell.<br /><br /><br />Kid

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Y'all see the ad for Evinrude E-tec on TV?

and thats the problem, sales and marketing are driving not engineering and service.<br /> over the past 10 years the engines are getting more and more complex and incredibly expensive to fix.<br /> however we are seeing average engine life spans steadily coming down.<br /> at 16K a pop a lot of the motors still have several years of payments left when we smack them with a 4000 dollar repair bill.<br />personnaly I wont rebuild an HPDI motor, not because I am technically deficient but because the factory has problems keeping them going.<br /> if its out of warrenty I give 2 choices, buy a factory powerhead and the parts needed or buy a motor. I have other friends with BRP and merc who offer the same options to their customers.<br /> the 4 strokes are going to be throw away motors as the labor and parts involved in a 4 stroke overhaul will make it very costly and thus prohibitive to rebuild.

 

[WillyBWright]

Re: Y'all see the ad for Evinrude E-tec on TV?

I should update gatorred's post a little. OMC was bought by Bombardier, the corporation. Bombardier is hugmongous in the thransportation industry and Johnnyrude was peanuts to them, so they offered it for sale to someone more dedicated. The "Bombardier" family bought the Johnson/Evinrude division (along with some other investors) essentailly making it a family business (BRP). I'm not sure, but SeaDoo and SkiDoo may be part of that deal as well. There is no public trading of stock that I'm aware of, so finding financial information regarding it is going to be difficult to impossible.<br /><br />The ad that's posted is slightly inaccurate. Merc will still be producing a carbureted 150 V-6 due to it's popularity. Merc has enough clean burning models that they can offer a few dirty ones yet.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Y'all see the ad for Evinrude E-tec on TV?

I understand this is the last year yamaha will offer a carbed V6. but they said that for the past 2 or 3 years.<br /> will be sad to see it go as its about a bullet proof an outboard you can make.<br />its 10 times more reliable than the 150 carbed mercs and jonnyrudes put together.

 

[Kanadakid]

Re: Y'all see the ad for Evinrude E-tec on TV?

Willy,<br /><br />Yes Seadoo and the personal watercraft were part of the deal. Yes Bombardier is huge in trains and airplanes. But dosn't make sense to buy a company and then sell it off in just 18 / 24 months. <br /><br />That is to short of term thinking. I think the got a smelly rat loaded with debt and poor quality / bad reputation. <br /><br />Cut losses and move on was the strategy.<br /><br />BRP has one last ditch opportunity to pull this thing off. Thus the reason for the huge ad campaign, way overstated claims and the shots at Yamhaha and Merc. They have nothing to loose ecasue they are desperate.<br /><br />Yamaha is saying nothing. I think they know something and stand to be huge winners. No when to hold-up no when to fold -up and when to walk away.<br /><br />I feel badly for all the guys who bought into the BRP hype and overstated claims. I don't want to see any boater in the shop because of engine problems including myself.<br /><br />IMO, they are just lean running and hot running engines. The magnetic fuel injection is a new developement, yes. But that doesn't by me all the technical advances that they are claiming.<br /><br />7 year warrenty<br />3 year no maintentce<br /><br />I don't think they will give the longevilty that other engine will provide.<br /><br />Rod, 4 stroke throw away engines ? I'm hoping that mine will last me many years and not be a throw away engine. <br /><br />If you were buying an engine today what would you buy ?<br /><br />Been a good topic.<br /><br />Kid

 

[cobra 3.0]

Re: Y'all see the ad for Evinrude E-tec on TV?

BRP and Bombardier are two separate companies. All pleasurecraft stuff is BRP. They separated because these two entites are completely distinct and they didn't want the focus of one firm in two different directions. Each is know focusing on what they do best. <br /><br />You're smoking something if you think BRP is going to fold. Their reputation is nothing less than excellent in whatever they make. This is not a "cut the corner" type of company. It took them quite a while to bring out these engines because of testing and retesting. They want it as bulletproof as possible before the average Joe goes out and buys one.<br /><br />I can see they have ruffled quite a few feathers out there!<br /><br />GOOD!

 

[Kanadakid]

Re: Y'all see the ad for Evinrude E-tec on TV?

Cobra<br /><br />You are certainly entitled to your opinions, but usually when a company buys out another, and their future looks promising you reap the benefits and the profits. You do not dump them unless you don't like the prognosis. <br /><br />"They separated because these two entities are completely distinct and they didn't want the focus of one firm in two different directions. Each is know focusing on what they do best."<br /><br />Who sold you that fairy tale ? What'd they buy them for ? <br /><br />All successful companies diversify and have managers over each division and business sector. <br /><br />GE does toasters, MRI machines and jet engines. <br /><br /><br />Bombardier the huge transportation company has nothing to do with BRP. Totally separate with the exception of the name.<br /><br />OMC was out of business when Bombardier purchased them. <br /><br />They jumped up, spun around, spit in the air and polished up the Evinrude image.....but all you really have is a 2 stroke engine that is run very lean, and hot. That's how they get the MPG and emission results. <br /><br />What I don't like is they throw these wild overstated features out there but under the surface really just smoke and mirrors. And regular guys like you and me buy into it because who can lie about a thing like that.<br /><br />7 year warranty - after market do not really a 7 year warranty<br /><br />3 years no maintenance -only if you run it a little each year<br /><br />twice the speed of a 4 stroke - our test with a special boat (may not get the same results in your boat)<br /><br />less emissions - running it real hot but we have special NASA alloys in our engine<br /><br />better gas mileage - running it real lean which mean high heat.<br /><br />no winterization - yea leave the gas in there for 4 months a see what happens. Pushing the button just over activated the oil injection system .<br /><br /><br />You have a very experienced tech on here who I don't think buys into all the hype either. <br /><br />I personally don't think these engines are going to give long term satisfaction or going the last.<br /> <br />As far as them going under, if they don't sell a a million tons of engines to pay off their enormous debt, you can bet they will be bye bye.<br /><br />Would love to see their financial. But that's not going to happen, no one would buy them then.<br /><br />For all the guys that bought these engine I sincerely hope that you have good luck with them.<br />I know how i would feel if my engine didn't give me the long term performance that I paid for and don't want that to happen to anyone.<br /><br />We all buy these engines with the same hopes and intentions. To have enjoyment with our friends and families.<br /><br />My irritation is with BRP in overstating their benefits and IMO misleading people. Not with those who purchased them, you just want a good engine. <br /><br />Like Rod said.....time will tell. <br /> <br /><br />Kid