Yamaha 200 HPDI fluctuating RPM's

[edc413]

I have a 28' Pursuit with twin 200 HPDI's (2005) with about 200 hours on them. Having an RPM problem with the Starboard engine. The port engine is "rock solid" in the RPM range, meaning if I put the throttle on 3600 is stays there. The Starboard engine jumps around between 3200 - 3900. In a swell or chop it is much worse. At first I thought it was cavitation but have adjusted trim every way and it only lessens the problem in helping to deal with any swell or chop.

I only have the boat a few weeks and am unsure of the previous maintenance history. The engine is under extended warranty. Any theories?

 

[scottcmb]

Re: Yamaha 200 HPDI fluctuating RPM's

first of all check the prop on that engine for any obvious damage..a damaged prop can cause cavitation.

secondly when was the last time your engines were serviced by a trained Yamaha HPDI technition?.....if you dont know or have any records i would SERIOUSLY look at getting both engines fully serviced and checked out to get them up to scratch for the hours they have done. And then carry on over time with the correct servicing procedure for your engines by a TRAINED YAMAHA HPDI TECHNITION!!!......these engines are not to be mucked around with!! otherwise chances are it can lead to being very costly!!

another possibilty.....if your boat has an engine syncroniser get that checked to.

once all this is done and sorted stick to the servicing schedual religiously......Happy boating

 

[edc413]

Re: Yamaha 200 HPDI fluctuating RPM's

Thanks for the help. I should have mentioned that the engines were supposed to have been "inspected" as part of getting the extended warranty (not original owner). But will follow your advice. Also, the trim reading in the tachometer gauge is at the top end and does not adjust. Any chance the engine is mounted different than the other and that is causing this problem?

 

[BT]

Re: Yamaha 200 HPDI fluctuating RPM's

I have the same boat with the same power. When we went for a sea trial we had the same problems.The dealer called pursuit and they lowered the engines it seemed to solve the problem. In rough seas you have to ease the throttle up do not bury the throttle or you will get cavation. My pursuit is a 2001 bought new happy with purchase. hope this helps.

 

[scottcmb]

Re: Yamaha 200 HPDI fluctuating RPM's

Thanks for the help. I should have mentioned that the engines were supposed to have been "inspected" as part of getting the extended warranty (not original owner). But will follow your advice. Also, the trim reading in the tachometer gauge is at the top end and does not adjust. Any chance the engine is mounted different than the other and that is causing this problem?

as far as the engines being mounted differently, just compare the two on the transom and check the geometry to make sure one isnt higher than the other.
If you have checked your prop for damage and found no problem then look to see if your engines can be dropped lower (make sure that both engines are equal) ya never know that the previous owner could have had them raised in the thought of trying to make the boat go faster and in this the cavitation problem then kicks in.
Do you have trim tabs mounted on the back? if you do, are you operating them properly? one could be down to hard and creating a whole in the water to one side of your prop and causing the cavitation
My suggestion is take it back to the dealer you purchased the boat from and get them to check all that out.
As far as your trim gauge is concerned if your engine trims up and down when you operate the trim button but no reading on the gauge, either a plug has been disconnected, damaged wiring somewhere or the trim sender unit has given up the ghost.

 

[edc413]

Re: Yamaha 200 HPDI fluctuating RPM's

Thanks for the answers guys. Now I think the problem is the prop is slipping. The mechanic at the marina marked the blade and hub with marker and they did not line up after a trip (the other engine/prop did). I guess I am just a newbie because I never had this happen before. Does this make sense?

 

[scottcmb]

Re: Yamaha 200 HPDI fluctuating RPM's

yep a slipping hub.

glad its sorted dude, now you have more knowledge about boats than you did last week

 

[edc413]

Re: Yamaha 200 HPDI fluctuating RPM's

I got the props back and while they were bad, I still have the problem. Starboard engine only. Now I am thinking maybe it is a fuel problem. I have changed the fuel filters and the spark plugs. What should I try next?

 

[scottcmb]

Re: Yamaha 200 HPDI fluctuating RPM's

if you are at the stage that you think the problem is in the engine itself and not the setup up on the rear of the boat, like i said before its best to take the engine to a QUALIFIED TRAINED YAMAHA TECHNITION!!!.....any booboo done by a novice whilst hunting the problem can possibly lead to your engine going "BANG".......these are a specialist engine!!!

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Yamaha 200 HPDI fluctuating RPM's

maybe its time for a bit of maint.
try cleaning the VST tank and filter as well as replacing the medium pressure inline filter.
I also reccomend changing the lift pumps every 3 years or so as well.
if the medium pressure filter is replaced,reccomended annually at least, make sure the CORRECT clamp is used not a standard worm screw type.
but your desription is a clogged VST filter.

 

[woody66912]

Re: Yamaha 200 HPDI fluctuating RPM's

you've gotten good advice. sounds like your in a state of process of elimtions you may want to have your o2 sensers cleaned.after breakin these tended to carbon up.witch made these engines run rich.and these techs are right have the pros do it

 

[edc413]

Re: Yamaha 200 HPDI fluctuating RPM's

This is a nightmare. Please someone tell me I have not made a MAJOR mistake buying YAMAHA. Trying to follow the advice posted here, I brought the boat to a "Yamaha" Marina. They kept the boat for 2 weeks, said the problem was the mid range fuel pump and filter. They also told me to take it somewhere else because they could not get parts from Yamaha.
I now have an appt at another marina/mehcanic but have to wait a week before they will even look at it.
In the meantime, while running the boat back and forth between marina's the other engine developed a problem also. In this case the RPM's surge when above about 2600 RPMs. And I mean surge... 1000+ RPMs.
So I have one engine surging, one dying, have wasted at least 3 weeks with dumb mechanics and have to wait at least 1 week more to even have it looked at.
Questions
* Any educated guesses on what the "surging" problem may be related too? I should note that I just had the props re-hubbed. Did they screw that up?
* As a Novice, should I even attempt to do the filter (o2, mid range, etc) myself? Are they easily accessible? Special tools?
* Is YAMAHA really this bad both in terms of reliability and dealer service?

 

[Bob Gale]

Re: Yamaha 200 HPDI fluctuating RPM's

Hi,
The surging engine sounds like the problem I had with my HPDI 150. You can find my postings under "Bob Gale". Turned out to be the dreaded $1000 high pressure pump. Very easy to change yourself, it's just getting the nerve to buy it and hope that's it. I also changed the pressure regulator attached to the pump assy, $200. It's easy to attach a 60 lb gauge to the bicycle valve on the vapor separator tank. If it has about 50 lb as soon as you turn the key, it will drop off if engine not running, but if at 50 or 60 lb when it starts surging it should be OK, and start looking at the HP mech pump. I had a laptop and could see the HP pump dropping from 700 lb to 18 lb when surging. Don't forget to change or check the filter between the vapor tank and the mech pump also. If you want I can email you the service manual, although it is not real helpful. PS, you can watch a video of my engine surging on U Tube, search under "Yamaha 150 HPDI problem".

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Yamaha 200 HPDI fluctuating RPM's

How is a dirty fuel system a Yamaha issue?
this I cant understand.
I guess if I let my truck sit and the fuel degrades it would be a ford problem ?
you say you took it to a Yamaha shop but this shop could not buy parts?
BS
you took it to a shade tree shop that can poke-N-hope at best.
not what you would do with a BMW or a lexus,why would you do it with a very complex direct fuel injected high performance outboard?
simply doesnt make sense.
can pumps fail? yes but usually it either works or not, my mom was enroute from Al to yellowstone last year and her 2 year old nissan suffered a pump failure, however this is very rare.
before chunking parts and using bicycle stuff either tke it to a shop that has at least fuel and electrical certifications from yamaha or buy the CORRECT diagnostic stuff from yamaha.
use the dealer locator website and try to find a dealership with at least 1 master tech, five star is good however its a 20 minute video course, always remember that.
would you take your new car to a shade tree? dont do it with your HPDI.
your trim indicate will either be a stuck sender,to much maint, or a broken trim cam, happens but they came out with a metal one that doesnt break.
if you look at the maint chart pay careful attention to the Hourly OR calander,whichever occurs FIRST.
todays ethanol fuels suck, no way around it, its not a Yamaha,BRP or mercury problem its 150+ gallons of ethanol junk sitting vented to the atmosphere for months at a time.
you would not believe the issues its created in my area since we went to all E-10 fuels last june.
I am making a lot of money but its very frustrating.
Ethanol belongs in my Evan Williams bottle or in a glass with Ice, not in my gasoline.
but slow down a bit, carefully trouble shoot things and you will find its rrely a manufacturer problem its almost always a fuel system maint issue.

 

[edc413]

Re: Yamaha 200 HPDI fluctuating RPM's

Rodbolt, What if anything can a novice do? I have changed the plugs, fuel water separators and had the props re-hubbed. How hard to clean mid-range fuel filter? VST? Oxygen Sensor? Anything else I can do while waiting for an appointment.
As for the Marina I took it to, It is advertised as YAMAHA CERTIFIED. Though, I could not find it on Yamaha's site.
And just a little history. This boat was on blocks. I made an offer and the marina put it in the water, got it running. I then had it surveyed and sea trialed. Yamaha also inspected before extending warranties. As soon as I took ownership (less than 2 months) I filled it with fresh gas & yamalube and put in ring free. I have only put around 30hrs on the engines (200 total). Also, the mid-range fuel pump was changed previously as a warranty repair on one of the engines. Sounds like you are PRO Yamaha and I hope I will be too. Right now my priorities are
1) Get the engines running
2) Trying to understand who if anyone dropped the ball.
If these repairs are not covered under warranty I will be a bit upset. I paid $3700 for coverage. And not sure what I should/could have done different. Paid for a survey.
Had Yamaha inspect.
Filled tanks with fresh stuff.


BTW http://www.sunharborbayclub.com/service/servicedept.php is the marina that could not get parts.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Yamaha 200 HPDI fluctuating RPM's

a pro? depends on who you aski, Yamaha did post my picture with about 80 others.
but you gotta find a dealership with either a master tech or at least a tech with fuel and electrical certificates on the wall.
still no warrenties
your describing either a clogged VST filter or a clogged medium pressure filter, both are simple fixs and both can be diagnosed with simple tools and a knowledge of how the subsystems all work to make the motor go zoooom.
what Yamaha certification have you seen at the dealership?
to become certified all a dealership has to do is take on a boat line that comes pre-rigged with a yamaha engine and POOF instant certification at a BASIC level.
doesnt mean anyone actually can spell Yamaha.
use the dealer locator function find a real dealership that employs factory trained techs.

 

[edc413]

Re: Yamaha 200 HPDI fluctuating RPM's

I followed the advice and took it to a good Yamaha shop and all was well. Clogged fuel filter on one side and a spun hub on the other. However, the hub that was repaired is spun again. Almost positive nothing was hit. Second time, any idea what could be causing this?

 

[scottcmb]

Re: Yamaha 200 HPDI fluctuating RPM's

its good to see you got your motor sorted out!!!....as far as the hub is concerned......it could be a case of "too far gone" for repair and you need to purchase a new prop