Yamaha no spark

[99yam40]

Re: Yamaha no spark

I think he means to check the wire that goes to the key switch and safety lanyard. That wire stops the CDI from firing the plugs when it is grounded.
I have no idea how reconnecting the charge coils will make it fire unless you just happen to be moving some of the wiring around and clear up a short to ground
Did you get a voltage reading on your Pulser coils with the DVA? Just wondering what the difference was from original reading you got.

 

[keys disease]

Re: Yamaha no spark

Pulser coils check great. I know what he means, just not sure of wire color, I think I should be chasing a white wire? The lanyard sends a grd signal to the CDI to inhibit spark? Also when I run engine in a barrel, I get quite a bit of black stuff which I assume is carbon. Should I be concerned? Thanks again

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Yamaha no spark

white from the key switch to the CDI is the kill circuit.
check all connectors carefully and rerun the tests with the system loaded.

 

[keys disease]

Re: Yamaha no spark

Checked kill circuits and worked great. I have continuity ( 2.3 ohms ) with key at stop or lanyard pulled. Open circuit on start or run. Now I tested circuits loaded ( plugged in ) and got these results. CDI peak voltage on all cylinders 0. Charge coil peak output R/BRN 230.6 volts, B/R -Blue 93.3 volts. Pulser coil peak output W/R-W/G 4.7 volts , W/Y-W/BR 3.0. Also replaced both batts ( failed load test ) and have less than a .5 voltage drop on either + or -........CDI bad?

 

[keys disease]

Re: Yamaha no spark

Also unplugged charge coil and plugged it back in and motor started. I have tugged, pulled and wiggled wires with no results. Done it both before and after testing. Dont get it.

 

[99yam40]

Re: Yamaha no spark

You will need Rodbolts input on this one, I do not know if unplugging the charge coil and then hooking back up resets anything or not. Does not make since to me.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Yamaha no spark

either you have a loose wire on the low speed charge coil,a broken wire between the charge coil and the CDI or a broken wire in the stop harness or a bad CDI.
try removing the white wire from the harness connector where it plugs into the CDI.
I would also try paper clips pushed into the charge coil wires at the CDI connector and retest the loaded voltage at the CDI itself.

 

[keys disease]

Re: Yamaha no spark

I removed white wire at CDI and still no start. I went to the local Yamaha dealer and talked to tech ( heard of Rodbolt ) and told him of my problem. He gave me a used CDI ( Tech thinks it a good unit ) and tried it. Still no start, but now do have a spark. Thinking maybe I'm chasing a ghost decided to run compression and change plugs. All cylinders were 115 psi and plugs were wet with gas. Started diag again, came up with new results. CDI output peak voltages cyls 2,4,6 between 191.0-192.6 cyls 1,3,5 between 195.2-195.5 volts loaded. Charge coil output peak voltage R/Br 235.2 B/R-L 94.5 volts loaded. Pulser coil output peak voltage W/R-W/G 4.6 volts loaded, 6.5 volts unloaded. W/Y-W/Br 3.1 loaded , 3.9 unloaded.

 

[rodbolt]

Re: Yamaha no spark

any CDI output peak over about 90V will spark the secondary ign coil circuit.
the plugs may now be fuel fouled.
you should not be dropping that much voltage between charge coil in and CDI out.
the CDI unit doesnt alter input voltages other than to rectify the peaks and discharge the caps into the primary (CDI OUT) circuits.

 

[keys disease]

Re: Yamaha no spark

You like me think I have the only bad CDI in the world. I called about dropping boat off and price of a CDI they want 1750 plus labor and diag. If thats the case hang me a new E-TEC. I hate to do anything cause I know I.m missing something stupid. If I spend a big note and she runs like the old days I'll be happy as a pig in sh"t. Tomorrow will rerun all tests and post results. Thanks for everybodies help................

 

[keys disease]

Re: Yamaha no spark

I retested today and got same results. Also engine now will not restart. Neightbor has same engine and wont speak to me about test driving my CDI on his engine. Cant really blame him but next time his wife locks her keys in her car while he is hunting I'll be slow to respone. Hoping someone replys or I'm replacing charge coil. I feel lucky......thanks again......boating rules...

 

[99yam40]

Re: Yamaha no spark

What does the manual give for the charge coils at cranking speed?
"Charge coil output peak voltage R/Br 235.2 B/R-L 94.5 volts loaded". I take it this is just cranking with starter. 94.5 sound too low , but I do not know how the slow and fast charge coils are suppose to act.

 

[keys disease]

Re: Yamaha no spark

Spec on charge coil is R/Br cranking 140 volts, loaded 160, 1500 rpms 165, 3500 rpms 165. B/R-L is cranking 40, loaded 55, 1500 rpms 165, 3500 rpms 165. My is above spec.If I follow manual it leads to replace CDI. Everyone I talk to says very rare to go bad. Now charge coils and pulser coils seem more prone to failure. This weekend going to pull flywheel and visually inspect. Also can buy both coils for price of one CDI......

 

[99yam40]

Re: Yamaha no spark

Yea you would think they would have a bench tester for the CDI's but I guess there are to many different ones to make a universal tester or they just have not had the need to do it. Its a pain to have to put it in a different motor just to make sure. But like RodBolt said if the charge is going in and not out properly it has to be in the CDI or the wiring. Apparently the charge coils are doing what they are suppose to according to the tests
Did you get the test harness or use the paper clips to get the loaded readings?
I thought the CDI's were around $800 or $900 for the 150.

I had to spend $400 on my C40 CDI just to get the idle timing back to spec.

 

[keys disease]

Re: Yamaha no spark

I used "Tpins" on CDI side of harness so connector is good. Have found a CDI for 750 out of a marina in Alaska. Going to retest this weekend and pull flywheel. Thanks bro and if you "brain storm" a fix or a test shoot me a reply....one other thing, charge coil output voltage should be about the same as CDI output peak when loaded cranking? The specs differ by 30 volts (CDI out 130-charge coil out 160) and I'm dropping about 40 volts?

 

[99yam40]

Re: Yamaha no spark

specs are given as minimums.
all readings I have seen are a lot higher than minimum normally. Mine dropped 30V. 235in and 205 out

Did you look for new CDI on line?
Look here

http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Yamaha/Outboard/parts.html\

I would rather spend an extra $100 on a new one than roll the dice on a used one.

 

[keys disease]

Re: Yamaha no spark

When you dropped 30 volts that was a CDI test? You replaced and no problemo.......I just feel I have CDI problem..............

 

[99yam40]

Re: Yamaha no spark

Come to think of it I did not test after the new CDI was installed. those were the reading on the original and it ran fine except for a WOT miss that it still has and it had the idle timing at 14 deg ATDC instead of the 7 deg ATDC and I had to crank the idle adjustment screw down quite a bit to get to the proper idle RPM and I did not like the way the linkage setting were at that point. Now remember this is a 1999 C40 I am talking about.
I took these readings with the motor running at idle with a DVA meter and also with a DMM with a DVA adapter I made and they were within a couple of volts of each other.
Charge coil 235 V I only have 1 ( spec 160v @1500RPM)
and the CDI output 205V all 3 wires( spec 140v@1500RPM)
pulse coil 6.5v at idle(spec 3.0 @cranking and 9V@ 1500). I did not have a tach to check RPM but the voltage did go up as the RPM increased
I used stick pins with the large heads that I ground the points down and smoothed out so they would not pierce the insulation as I pushed them down beside the wires into the wire connector

Is the Alaska CDI a used one and have you checked the online part house prices for new ones?

 

[keys disease]

Re: Yamaha no spark

Is a new Yamaha unit. What are some parts warehouse addresses?

 

[99yam40]

Re: Yamaha no spark

I gave you a link to one before.
http://www.boats.net/parts/search/Yamaha/Outboard/parts.html

iboats sell parts also along with lots of others. Just need to search the web and take into account the shipping and handling. usually at that price they do not charge for the shipping.
$750 sounds like a good price as long as they don't hit you with shipping. What is the link to their web site?