Yesterdays post - 1971 Johnson 60ESL-71C lower unit problems

[Neil G.]

Re: Yesterdays post - 1971 Johnson 60ESL-71C lower unit problems

Back to figure out what?s wrong with this lower unit as the other one
re-http://forums.iboats.com/johnson-evinrude-outboards/71-johnson-60esl-71c-drive-shaft-removal-624478.html
is going to require some gears. As I lost forward gear on this lower unit I?ve just taken the prop shaft off and to my surprise this gearcase has either been rebuilt and/or has low hours on it. The gears seem to be in very good condition. My dilemma now is do I reseal with new rings and seals as the oil came out milky and hope that?s why I lost forward gear or continue on further into gearcase! Anyways thanks for all replies to this point on both threads as I have received some excellent information.

 

[orbanp]

Re: Yesterdays post - 1971 Johnson 60ESL-71C lower unit problems

Hi Neil,

I f you already have it apart you might as well do it right. It will save you trouble and work later on.

Peter

 

[Neil G.]

Re: Yesterdays post - 1971 Johnson 60ESL-71C lower unit problems

Thanks Peter, makes sense.
Have realized clutch dog seems to be in forward gear position as when I slide shaft back into case it seems dog is engaging forward gear. After thinking that no forward gear could have been caused by water in gearcase now thinking should have defaulted to forward and I should not have been able to shift into neutral or reverse! Maybe I'm missing something! As Faztbullet mentions in previous post on thread that maybe something was keeping clutch dog from moving and it now has come free. Anyways learning lots and once again thanks for all the excellent feedback.

 

[Neil G.]

Re: Yesterdays post - 1971 Johnson 60ESL-71C lower unit problems

Hi again, couple days break.
Any suggestions in how to get oil pump out?
Mentions in manual E model needs a special tool but does not say anything about C model, also assembly diagram shows retaining ring for E model but none for C!
What am I missing Please?
Thanks

 

[orbanp]

Re: Yesterdays post - 1971 Johnson 60ESL-71C lower unit problems

Hi Neil,

PM sent.

Peter

 

[Neil G.]

Re: Yesterdays post - 1971 Johnson 60ESL-71C lower unit problems

Thanks again Peter for all the assistance.

 

[Neil G.]

Re: Yesterdays post - 1971 Johnson 60ESL-71C lower unit problems

Help! I only have the oil pumps left to remove in both 1971 Johnson 60ESL-71C lower units, one that had a blown clutch dog and the other lost forward gear. As mentioned in post #24 the factory manual states E model needs a special tool but does not say anything about the C model, also assembly diagram shows retaining ring for E model but none for C!
Threaded in 2 - 1/4" x 8" long bolts and hoped a little tug would bring pump out but it didn't budge. Don't want to break anything now so being very cautious, so close but need help to figure this out! Hopefully someone has been to this point and can share their knowledge. As always Thanks for all the help to this point.

 

[orbanp]

Re: Yesterdays post - 1971 Johnson 60ESL-71C lower unit problems

...
Threaded in 2 - 1/4" x 8" long bolts and hoped a little tug would bring pump out but it didn't budge.
...

Hi Neil,

I think it would need a bit more than "little tug" to remove that oil pump! The two sliding hammers shown in the manual attest to that!
I would rather build a special puller, the two bolts pulled against the gear case. You could use a two armed steering wheel puller with the two long screws, a steel plate (could be an angle iron, or U-channel section, if you have long enough bolts) put across the face of the gear case with the two screws clearing that plate, and the center bolt of the puller pushing against that plate. Depending how hard (most probably not that hard) that center bolt needs to be cranked, use at least grade 5 bolts!

Some time ago you asked about the specs on oil pump wear. I could not find any other (automotive) manuals that give wear specs on trochoidal pumps. Regular gear pumps usually have a wear limit about 0.1- 0.2mm (about 4 - 8 thou) tip to case clearance. You could use this as a guidance, but probably there would not be any significant wear.

Good luck, Peter

 

[Neil G.]

Re: Yesterdays post - 1971 Johnson 60ESL-71C lower unit problems

Thanks again Peter!
A bit of a crude slide hammer hookup but it worked and took only a few minutes to remove each pump.
One of the adapter ends in slide hammer set fit over 1/4" bolt but the head fit nicely in adapter, so pulled one side out a bit then went to other and out she came. So first part of journey done, 2 empty gearcases and a bunch of parts that need cleaning and reassembly.

 

[orbanp]

Re: Yesterdays post - 1971 Johnson 60ESL-71C lower unit problems

Good going!
Just do not mix the internal parts of the individual pumps!

I like the picture with the gear cases set up opposed to each other!

Regards, Peter

 

[Neil G.]

Re: Yesterdays post - 1971 Johnson 60ESL-71C lower unit problems

Plunger in pump that attaches to clutch dog stuck or trash under check ball under pump lever..

As mentioned in a previous post this plunger/piston in the pump is jammed in the pump housing cover. I`m hoping this is the problem!

 

[Neil G.]

Re: Yesterdays post - 1971 Johnson 60ESL-71C lower unit problems

Just reading manual on reassembly of gearcase and it states install check valve balls and re-attach the valve levers with pins. At this point it only makes sense to replace these 42 year old parts!
Wondering if anyone has ever popped the valve pins out of the housing?
If so would it be just a matter of a nail punch and pop them out?
As always your experience and knowledge is appreciated, Thanks.

 

[orbanp]

Re: Yesterdays post - 1971 Johnson 60ESL-71C lower unit problems

Hi Neil,

There is no point replacing the balls and levers unless they are worn or damaged. The balls are ball bearing balls, actually quite hard, they will likely not wear in such an application. What you can check is the seat in the pump housing, where the balls sit and seal, if they are damaged or worn there. The housing is made of a softer material than the balls.
Yes, you can drive out the pins with a punch. Do not forget to secure the head of the pins when you re-assemble it (hammer on it a bit, gently, like on a rivet head), so it would not come out.

Peter

 

[Neil G.]

Re: Yesterdays post - 1971 Johnson 60ESL-71C lower unit problems

Thanks again Peter, makes sense to just inspect balls and levers and just make sure the seats are in good condition.
As always Thanks for all your guidance and knowledge on this job.

 

[orbanp]

Re: Yesterdays post - 1971 Johnson 60ESL-71C lower unit problems

Hi Neil,

Just curious. What was the reason for the piston jamming in the pump housing? That was your problem, right?
The business end of the piston looks to be in good shape. Was it jammed somewhere else?

Peter

 

[Neil G.]

Re: Yesterdays post - 1971 Johnson 60ESL-71C lower unit problems

it is the microscopic stuff that jams it up, not visible metal chunks. The piston is a precision fit in the bore, no seals to help it. Because of the very close fit, it doesn't take much to make it quit sliding

Hi Peter,
Once the piston came free from a lot of pulling I found some metal filings and tiny black specs of junk where it was jammed in the pump housing. Still not 100% if that is the problem as basically learning as I go (not sure if that?s a good thing). As the above quote from F_R in a previous thread states that ?it doesn't take much to make it quit sliding. I?m hoping this is the problem as that seems to be the only place where I found piston jammed. Noticed in manual a diagram shows the shift set up in forward gear and not sure if I?m seeing this right but it does not look like shift piston is bottomed out (all the way in pump housing). My thought is If shift piston is all the way forward (bottomed out), I don?t see how oil pressure could get behind it to push it back into neutral but again I?m just learning and trying my best to comprehend this stuff. Bought myself a 5 gallon parts washing tank last night so going to start cleaning things up. By the way thanks for the follow up.
Neil

 

[orbanp]

Re: Yesterdays post - 1971 Johnson 60ESL-71C lower unit problems

Hi Neil,

When the piston is bottomed out in forward, that does not seal the face of the piston to the back of the pump housing, so oil can and does get behind it!
I guess you just found where parts of the missing pieces from the gears ended up! The black pieces could have come from the o-ring. Did I see it correctly that there is an o-ring in the oil pump?
You are going to replace that o-ring, right? And the others as well!

Regards, Peter

 

[Neil G.]

Re: Yesterdays post - 1971 Johnson 60ESL-71C lower unit problems

Thanks Peter, yes there is an o ring in housing and have just purchased all o rings and seals for lower unit but did not get any bearings.
Hopefully should be okay. Thanks

 

[Neil G.]

Re: Yesterdays post - 1971 Johnson 60ESL-71C lower unit problems

Quick update on this thread and the reassembly of my hydro electric shift gearcase. Originally gearcase was stuck in forward gear, then after plunger adjustment on solenoids I got neutral and reverse back. After a day on the water I ended up losing forward gear and only had neutral and reverse. So as all signs pointed to a gearcase tear down that's what I did, all previous posts describe some of the challenges I had and great info I received from members.
So this week after all parts cleaned up and reassembled in gearcase along with o rings and seals replaced I fired it up for the first time in weeks. Started up in neutral, shifted to reverse then into forward, then same old issue (see post #1) came back I lost neutral and reverse and only have forward once again.
Oh well off LU comes again and hoping a solenoid adjustment is all that's required, just wondering if lock nut/screw on shift rod is loose. In hindsight should have bench tested but was being over confident that the complete tear down was going to fix it so ended up just reinstalling LU! The fun never stops and I just keep getting more experience with the hydro elecric shift, but dang I'd like to get back on the water before winter!
Oh by the way very important to put the O ring on the bearing carrier prior to reinstalling, this o ring keeps the gearcase oil from leaking out onto your driveway!:embarassed: