Yet another stuck steering tube! Make sure I'm thinking right, please.

[emoney]

So, when I picked up my "new-to-me" Trophy 1802 w/120hp Force of 1995 vintage", I knew the steering was stuck and paid accordingly. PO was an elderly gentleman that buys boats new-ish and has his local Marine Repair Facility fix whatever breaks. Looks as if he had an issue before and they put a new cable on, but probably didn't clean out the tube, big surprise, eh? I undrstand my tilt tube and steering tube are the same? I've disconnected the tiller arm to confirm the motor pivots aren't bad and once I loosen the nut on the cable, I get a smidgeon of movement in the wheel and starboard side of the cable, but the steering "arm (?)" on the port side dosn't move, so I think I'm right in assuming the prob is in the lack of maintenance in the tube. I'll use PB Blaster, liberally on both sides and then what? I don't really have any room to hammer the port side thx to the splashwell. Thoughts? Also, I noticed there's grease (oldish) on the top of the bracket, is their grease fittings I just can't see that would allow me to try and force the old out? I'll go buy a "torch" today, where am I applying heat, along the tube's front? Acces hole to gas tank is in the splashwell in front of motor, concerns about the flame here. I've read several old threads, such a cool site ain't it? Thx in advance...............eric.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: Yet another stuck steering tube! Make sure I'm thinking right, please.

Don't hit anything with a hammer.
If you hit the end of the cable and mushroom it,it will NEVER come out again!!!
Hook it back up,Then someone inside,putting pressure on the wheel,not too much as it can strip the inside of the rack and pinion.
Then heat,PB and push,Then heat and PB and push the other way!!!
Not sure if you have enough room to remove the cable(doubt it) but unscrew the big silver colored nut and try pulling the cable out.
Once it comes loose with the nut loose turn the wheel and part of the inside of the cable will show.
Clean and clean some more.
Once it's clean,I use WD and 30wt.and spray white lithium to keep it free.

 

[Bob_VT]

Re: Yet another stuck steering tube! Make sure I'm thinking right, please.

MANY motors require that ytou unbolt the motor and slide the motor to the side for the proper clearance to remove the old steering set-up.

Clean the tube with a 12 Gauge shotgun cleaning brush befor you re-install anything.

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Yet another stuck steering tube! Make sure I'm thinking right, please.

The movement you get with the nut loose is the steering cable moving inside the nut, not the end moving in the tilt tube. Here you are between a rock and a hard place.

Very often, once the steering cable is stuck inside the tilt tube by rust it is "cold welded" and becomes impossible to remove. Try to remove the cable nut completely and with some heat on the tube beat the end of the cable. Use a brass or aluminum drift so you don't mushroom it in case it does come free. No choice here: You must unbolt the engine and move it to make room.

I it does not come free, you have no choice but to cut the steering cable, remove the engine, and remove the tilt tube. Buy a new cable or helm assemble and a new tilt tube.

Just recently my partner and I worked on a recovered stolen Merc. The steering cable was stuck inside the tilt tube and the tilt tube was corroded into the transom clamps. We needed to heat the clamps and beat with a 6 pound hammer while heating to get the tube out. As soon as heat was removed, the tube would sieze too tightly to move, even under the hammer blows. It took two men a couple of hours to remove the stuck tilt tube and the steering cable is still in it.

An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.

 

[emoney]

Re: Yet another stuck steering tube! Make sure I'm thinking right, please.

Thanks guys for the quick responses. Once the cable nut is off, I can get 2-3" inches of cable to show on the starboard side by turning the wheel. As for the port side, no movement, of course. When I twist the tube nuts(?), the cable end will spin with the nut. Haven't applied much pressure nor have I twisted that nut very far in either direction. But, if I do twist on that nut, a) am I putting myself into any danger of making matters worse? And, b)since the cable is actually twisting with the nut, would it even do any good to do that? Same applies to the Starboard side; once I twist the nut on the tube itself (not the nut on the end of the cable, the other one), the cable twists right along with it.

@Frank....What's a "drift" and where do I find one? I've got zero room to get any real leverage on a hammer blow on that side, unless I can figure a way to get something through the pivot hole where the tiller arm attaches that sticks above the well.

And lastly, can I gain anything by spraying PB Blaster on the inside of the cable, at least that 2-3" area that I can expose with the silver nut off by turning the wheel? Or, is that going inside the rod at the end? It's all salt water corrosion I'm sure. Oops, I already said "lastly", however, I just thought of something else...yikes. Any thoughts on where that grease is coming from that's sitting on top of the bracket, right above the steering/tilt tube? I suppose it could be leftover grease where someone thought they could loosen the cable itself, but it sure looks like a pile that you normally see squeezed outside of a grease fitting. Maybe that's wishful thinking on my parts. I'll get some pictures up this late afternoon once I'm home and back at this in the event I'm not being clear on some part. Maybe with all of your help I can get this thing "unstuck" and with enough pictures, the next joe schmoe that comes along will have something to see if he/she has encountered this mess. Truer words were never spoken in, "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure", because this whole mess could've been avoided had the PO just done a little bit of maintenance.

 

[foodfisher]

Re: Yet another stuck steering tube! Make sure I'm thinking right, please.

Drift=punch. I used brass nipples and cap on the strike end. From plumbing supplies. Engine removal is a hassle but not as much as trying to do it in place.

 

[emoney]

Re: Yet another stuck steering tube! Make sure I'm thinking right, please.

Thanks for the drift scoop. I don't have a way to hoist the motor, but will come up with one if nothing else works. As for applying "heat", will a Heat Gun get enough warmth on there to affect it? It supposedly gets to 1112 Fahrenheit.

 

[emoney]

Re: Yet another stuck steering tube! Make sure I'm thinking right, please.

Sorry to inundate with these trivial questions, but hey, there's a "non-mechanic" mechanicing...wait, is that a word? Anyway, when it comes to applying the heat, am I to concentrate on the front of the bracket where the tube is housed or focus more on the part that's sticking out on the Port side? I've decided to go the heat gun route mainly because right in front of the motor is the access panel to the fuel tank and the fuel hoses and I figure this will be safer. No since blowing myself and the garage up over a stuck steering cable, i suppose. How long does one normally spend heating this area? Is it more of a "Step 1 - Spray the PB Blaster. Step 2 - Allow PBBlaster to penetrate for 10-15 minutes. Step 3 - Apply heat for 8-10 minutes. Step 4 - Wiggle the cable as much as possible. Step 5 - Repeat the whole process", type system? (Not sure if that's even close to right but I sure did sound knowledgeable there, didn't I?)

 

[emoney]

Re: Yet another stuck steering tube! Make sure I'm thinking right, please.

Ok, tonight is "pics night", as promised above. 1st, a major development, there IS a grease fitting;

So I did what was logical to me and I whipped out my grease gun and used what I had;

Quite a bit of the old came out on the Port side, but....

not so much on the Starboard side. Does this tell me anything, like I should concentrate heat on that side? How much am I looking to get out of th old, and how do I know when to say "stop"?
I only had a small portion so I'll get more tomorrow. I put the heat gun on it, but not sure how long is long enough. The old grease on outside started to boil, on the Port side, but this sucker.....

STILL wouldn't budge. What's next, more of the same?? Help!!!!!

Man I wish I had a motor hoist!!!

 

[Frank Acampora]

Re: Yet another stuck steering tube! Make sure I'm thinking right, please.

That grease fitting only lubricates the tilt tube and transom clamps. No grease will get to the steering cable. Forget the PB Blaster. It won't penetrate. Heat and Hammer. -----until you are ready to give up and replace the tilt tube and steering cable.

 

[emoney]

Re: Yet another stuck steering tube! Make sure I'm thinking right, please.

I'm ready to give up now, lol. How do I get this beast off?

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: Yet another stuck steering tube! Make sure I'm thinking right, please.

Keep trying,the heat gun aint hot enough.
I use a small propane torch and sometimes the welding torch comes out!!
I keep a fire extinguisher and a hose close when using any kind of heat around the boat.

 

[emoney]

Re: Yet another stuck steering tube! Make sure I'm thinking right, please.

I'll apply more heat tonight, after I stop and get a torch. Here's the bracket pic for my motor;

What is screw #8, which there's two on each side of the grease fitting, holding? If I do have to take the motor off, are those the screws that hold the tilt tube in place on the bracket?

 

[emoney]

Re: Yet another stuck steering tube! Make sure I'm thinking right, please.

And, am I better off figuring a way to get this thing off and apply the heat directly to the tube itself? I guess that's why I can't get enough heat because it's technically got to go through two pieces, right? I'm starting to get a feel for this thing at least.

While we're at it, where's the best place to order this tilt tube if I take the whole thing off? I'm trying to determine at the moment if it would be cheaper to buy an engine hoist than to pay someone to take it off. Not sure I'd need it again, but it would probably pay for itself eventually wouldn't it? I'll try to search DIY engine hoist and see if anything comes up that seems doable. Anybody know how much the floor joists of a house will handle, load-wise? I removed the windshield and backed this thing into my garage, which is on the bottom floor so if somebody has a "plan" that would entail using the floor joist as part of the brace I need to build, I'm all ears (and eyes, of course)

Also, I found this;

Anybody know the dimensions of part #5 as in "is it 12" x 7/8"? I'm not at home at the moment, at work, and I found that at least at some point Chrysler/Force used that sized steering tube, of which I found one on Ebay that was cheap enough to go ahead and buy compared to everything else I saw. If it doesn't work or I don't need it, I figure I could put it back on Ebay and get my money back.

 

[emoney]

Re: Yet another stuck steering tube! Make sure I'm thinking right, please.

That grease fitting only lubricates the tilt tube and transom clamps. No grease will get to the steering cable. Forget the PB Blaster. It won't penetrate. Heat and Hammer. -----until you are ready to give up and replace the tilt tube and steering cable.

Well, I guess at least I got some fresh grease in that area, lol.

 

[emoney]

Re: Yet another stuck steering tube! Make sure I'm thinking right, please.

I dunno, Jerry. I put the torch I just bought to it for 15 minutes, both sides and in th middle and she's not even annoyed, let alone has she thought about budging one ounce. Should I just sit there and continually hold the torch for longer? I'm using the side of the head of a 32 ounce steel Cali. framing hammer (due to lack of room) and it's not moved a 1/16 of an inch. Are you still on the "keep at it side"?
Or, is it time to find a way to get this beast off there, cut the cable, remove and replace the tilt tube and cable? Think the cable/tube is
salvagable after all this? With that tube going through that heavy bracket sleeve, can heat even reach it? (diagram #1, part #1)

Frank, what do I need to build to hoist this thing? I was just sitting here thinking I could cut a 2"x8", doubl it, hang it between the floor joists with an angle bracket on both sides, drill a hole for the largest "eye bolt" I can find and go buy this;

BUT, how do I hook up to the motor since I don't have a lift hook? Does my plan even make sense? (Of course, anybody can answer any of these questions) Right now I'm betwixt building a motor hoist or paying somebody to get it off.

And, lastly (probably not, but...), I measured this tube best I can anyway, and came up with 12" x 7/8"....sound about right? I hope so cause I found that part on ebay today for $10.00 and bought it.

 

[emoney]

Re: Yet another stuck steering tube! Make sure I'm thinking right, please.

By the way, thanks a ton so far to both of you (all of you) for your help so far. I'd rather not take it off, but if that's not logical, then I'm ready to move on. Anybody know about how much it should cost to have somebody do it? I'm pretty sure I can handle putting the new one on.....at least I'm hoping so. I was able to put one on the jet boat I sold and I forgot to use rope behind the old one when I took it out. I hope that's not created a false sense of hop

Just found out I can borrow one of these, will it work?-

 

[foodfisher]

Re: Yet another stuck steering tube! Make sure I'm thinking right, please.

Rent/borrow a cherry picker/engine hoist. When the engine is hanging, it won't take too many whacks to get it out,with the right sized drift. Top of flywheel are three bolt holes, I think 1/4 20. A plate of scrap metal drilled to accept these bolts. A center hole drilled to accept an eye bolt. Bolt the three down thru the plate, have the eye up, nut on bottom of plate . That's the lifting rig. Use right sized brass fitting and whack the Bgeesus out of it. Ain't no braindead object can outwit a functioning want to.

 

[jerryjerry05]

Re: Yet another stuck steering tube! Make sure I'm thinking right, please.

I use a 1/4-20 eye ring in the top of the flywheel to lift the motor.
Your motor turning(L and R) when the steering arm is removed?
It's not frozen in the kingpin area??
Try heating the end of the steering cable and then spray and push.

I'm lucky I have a tree that I use to lift motors.I use a comealong from Wally World $20

If it doesn't get better soon, bring it on over and I'll help get it apart.J

 

[foodfisher]

Re: Yet another stuck steering tube! Make sure I'm thinking right, please.

Come along kept mine hung till I built the stand posted somewhere in these archives.