You guys have me very paranoid. Shifting issue

[autotec]

88 Baja 180 Islander w/ a OMC 350 and Cobra outdrive. New Cap, Rotor, Plugs, wires, points and condenser. Dwell right at 30. Also just rebuilt the carb, runs perfect. One of the issues is with the timing. Initial according to my light is set at 18 with total advance at 30. It starts, runs and idles great. I'm still looking at that.

I've been reading, researching and checking EVERYTHING to make sure this boat wont leave us stranded. I've had the boat out 2 times now before the tune up and had a hard time shifting 2 times.

Now on the muffs, it's trying to go into gear before the cam actuates the ESA switch. The switch works, I just hear the clicking from the outdrive before the cable moves the cam to apply the switch to scramble the ignition. If I have to pull the outdrive and install a new cable, I will. But the main question is: Do I have to be in the water to make sure this system works as it should?

I know it's another ESA, Cobra outdrive question, but all of the info out there has me kinda confused. I don't want to make any adjustments if I don't have to.

Thanks, Justin

 

[kmarine]

These are a pain in the but to adjust. They can only be adjusted in the water and try to find a mechanic with confidence in adjusting them. I have done plenty if them and half the time the lower cable needs replacing because they have stretched. this is the issue that destroyed OMC stern drive.

 

[Howard Sterndrive]

it's trying to go into gear before the cam actuates the ESA switch. The switch works, I just hear the clicking from the outdrive before the cable moves the cam to apply the switch to scramble the ignition.

that's normal. even in the water, the ESA doesn't engage every time going INTO gear unless you have a heavy SS prop. Then it tends to but probably not on the trailer.

If it's hard to get into N, then something's out of whack and forcing it will stretch cables.

Your lower may have received the updated 5 degree dog that was one of OMC's attempts at fixing the issue back in the day. With those angled dogs, it makes the setup more critical as the update gears really don't like to disengage.

 

[autotec]

These are a pain in the but to adjust. They can only be adjusted in the water and try to find a mechanic with confidence in adjusting them. I have done plenty if them and half the time the lower cable needs replacing because they have stretched. this is the issue that destroyed OMC stern drive.

Just from a few days of reading and researching, I see it was a major problem. I'm not one to have other people work on my stuff, I always try to learn and do everything myself. I'm very picky with my vehicles and I doubt I would be happy with the end results if someone else touched it. Even though it would probably be better and faster than if I would do it. LOL.

I had a few drinks last night, so I didn't want to adjust anything. But I see how the system is supposed to work. The outdrive shifts with one finger with the engine off sitting in the garage. The cam or toothed triangle (really don't know what to call it) is free and moves very nice after the drive goes into gear. Watching a few videos I can see mine is moving late in relation to the shifting arm. All of the adjustments look right according to the instructions I have found, so I'm confused. I'll play around with it tonight and try to see what's going on before I pull the drive and replace the lower cable. I just don't want to do it if I don't have to.

Thanks again, Justin

 

[redneck joe]

have you read all this? And I mean all of it.


http://www.hastings.org/~stuart/cobra/index.html

 

[Idlespeedonly]

IMO, if there is any doubt as to the condition of the lower cable just replace it.
The clicking that you are hearing are the clutch dogs hitting each other. This is a sound you do not want to hear.
You are either not shifting fast enough or have cable issues. These are good systems, There is just no room for error.

 

[bruceb58]

The ESA should only engage when you are in the water shifting OUT of gear.

You DO NOT adjust the cables while you are i the water. You pull the drive and use the 2 special OMC tools to do the adjustment. If any marine mechanic says to do it this way, find another mechanic.

Your distributor is not giving you enough total advance. 18 starting point is way to high. Should be at 8 and go up to 29 for a total of 21 total centrifugal advance. What distributor is in your boat? It doesn't have a vacuum advance right?

 

[Lou C]

As always I agree with Bruce. It is NOT necessary to adjust it in the water....What is necessary is to get at least the bell crank holder and shift cable tools, and a fish scale. You have to start at the beginning. First your initial timing is way way to advanced. It should be 8* if using regular gas, 10* if using premium. Your total timing advance at 3,000 rpm should be 30* premium gas/28* regular. Centrifugal is about 20*. If you need that much initial advance to get the total right then the springs or weights under the point plate are bad, or corroded.
Fix that, get the idle down to 600.
Then, remove the drive, measure the shift rod height. Disconnect the transom shift cable at the bellcrank in the pivot housing and on the engine side. Measure the drag, full travel in both directions, should be less than 2.5 lbs. If its more you need a new cable. Next use the bellcrank holder tool to hold it at 90* and set the cable length with the other tool on the engine side. Next re-install the drive, and adjust the remote cable at the engine bell crank. Midnight Wolf has all the tools except the shift rod height one and the instructions on his website. If you cable is good, set up right, and the idle is 600, ESA works it should shift right.
I have the same cable on mine, for at least 12 years, and it was 1.5 lbs when I checked it last year. The other thing is that the bellcrank in the pivot housing can get water deposits behind it, you need to clean them out, and pack that area with OMC triple guard grease. I do this every season, coating the gasket with a good coat of OMC gasket sealer on both sides helps keep the water out.

There is one way to check it without taking it all apart:
Get a helper they will spin the prop while you shift it with the transom shift cable disconnected at the engine end. First, you mark on the cable where neutral is, then with your helper spinning the prop, shift it to fwd. They should feel the clutch dog fully engage fwd. Mark on the cable where it engages. Do the same for rev. Both gears should fully engage, and the travel in both should be = on either side of neutral. Even if this is OK, you can still have a sticky cable or crudded up bellcrank though.
The spinning of the prop by hand and feeling for full engagement and = travel are good checks on your work. I did this both with the transom cable disconnected, and then after with the remote cable connected. This also has to have proper adjustment to get = travel in rev and fwd from the control.

 

[autotec]

Thanks for all of the info guys. I have read the hastings report and most of the threads where people were/are having problems. It's good to know that the ESA only works while pulling out of gear, that's how mine is working. most times. I played with it a touch before I went to work this morning and I had 2 cases where I hit the ESA switch and it didn't scramble the timing. I'm starting to think I may have a switch that doesn't work all of the time. I'll play with it some more when I get home and fill everyone in.

And yes, I was being very slow with the movement of the shifter. I guess I just have to be faster. Thanks again everybody.

 

[bruceb58]

It's good to know that the ESA only works while pulling out of gear, that's how mine is working.

And it should be doing this while in the water. Shouldn't happen when you are on muffs.

 

[autotec]

And it should be doing this while in the water. Shouldn't happen when you are on muffs.

Just curious, why wouldn't it work out of the water? It's just a mechanical connection.

 

[bruceb58]

There is no load on the dog clutch because there is no water pushing up against the prop. When you are in the water, there is extra tension on the lower shift cable trying to pull the dogs apart. That extra tension is what causes the cam to move and cause the shift switch to close.

When your cable ages and gets worn out, there will be extra tension even though you are out of water. If the shift switch is getting engaged going into gear or going out of gear on muffs, time to change the cable.

 

[autotec]

Timing set at 10 degrees with a total of 30 by 3k. Idle is right at 600 rpm. Now onto the ESA switch. I manually actuated a few times and nothing happened half of the time. I'm testing the switch now.

 

[bruceb58]

When you manually operate the shift switch, you should be in neutral. Reason is that there is an overstroke switch that opens up the circuit when the drive is fully in gear(forward or neutral)

 

[bruceb58]

The switch that is above the shift switch is the overstroke switch. It is a normally closed switch and opens when you are in gear. It is wired in series with the shift switch.

 

[autotec]

There is no load on the dog clutch because there is no water pushing up against the prop. When you are in the water, there is extra tension on the lower shift cable trying to pull the dogs apart. That extra tension is what causes the cam to move and cause the shift switch to close.

When your cable ages and gets worn out, there will be extra tension even though you are out of water. If the shift switch is getting engaged going into gear or going out of gear on muffs, time to change the cable.

Ah, I'm starting to see how it works. That's why I was wondering why the cam wouldn't move, it's the extra force from the water. The cam finally does move, but I have to be well past the shifting point.

Both switches test good, one N/O and one N/C. I'm checking all of the connections now and re-doing the ground. The resistance was a touch higher that any other ground. But over all, I'm thinking the module is flakey.

Has anyone "wired it like a Merc"? Those threads keep popping up, but I'm not one to stray away from the factory installed systems. They seem to be the most reliable.

Thanks, Justin

 

[autotec]

Wow, I'm baffled. After all of my testing, I came to a conclusion I needed a new ESA module. To verify this, I cut the ends off of the module and "wired it like a Merc". I figured it was simple enough, and to test my theory, it would work. One wire of the interrupter switch to ground, the other wire to the negative side of the coil as a lot of people have done. The switch still wont do anything. Check continuity of the switch and wiring, it's as it should be. Jumper the harness to bypass the switch, still nothing. Doesn't stumble or die. Checking more, the neg side of the coil has a good ground. So what would I be doing if I grounded it anyway? Researched some more, and everyone is doing it this way. So what am I overlooking?

Thanks, Justin

 

[bruceb58]

I would not wire it like a Merc. Keep the ESA. If your cable gets to the point where it sticks, your engine will die and you will be stuck. Merc doesn't have the cable issues like OMC does.

 

[autotec]

I would not wire it like a Merc. Keep the ESA. If your cable gets to the point where it sticks, your engine will die and you will be stuck. Merc doesn't have the cable issues like OMC does.

I wasn't planning on keeping it this way, it was just for verification of the issue. Now I've had a few drinks, but I'm still thinking correct. ( I hope )

Checking more, the coil has a good ground, so why would it matter if the switch grounds the coil? The coil gets turned on by the key switch. (pos)

I'll have do some more digging tomorrow, I'm just about done for the night.

 

[autotec]

Alright, this was really bugging me so I stayed up for one more test. Looking at everything in the schematic, the only thing that wasn't factory was the tach. Somewhere along the line, the PO replaced it. All of the wiring under the dash looked good so I removed the lead from the coil. And just like that, I could kill the engine with a jumper going to the neg side of the coil.

So tomorrow I will hook the original ESA module and wiring up to see if everything works. If it does, I'll order a new tach. Maybe there is something in the tach that is back feeding a ground to the coil. Something is supplying the coil with a ground. I think I'm getting somewhere with this problem.