what's up with this?

cbeam2

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
94
Anyone heard of this? Is this saying the battery will not charge correctly or that the rectifier will be damaged?


Chuck
 

jay_merrill

Vice Admiral
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
5,653
Re: what's up with this?

Are you sure the link is good? I'm getting an error message when I click on it.
 

cbeam2

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
94
Re: what's up with this?

I guess it was removed. Here is copy and paste from site.

OMC REGULATOR # 193-5204

OMC REGULATOR 35AMP CROSSFLOW. Warning!! Walmart and AutoZone marine batteries are incompatible with this regulator. Duralast and Everstart batteries are overcharging and even a new regulator will fail. New circuits are being experimented with.

OE # : 395204, 395391, 582904, 583076, 583268, 58-5204

Chuck
 

ezeke

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Sep 19, 2003
Messages
12,532
Re: what's up with this?

The reference is to a CDI regulated rectifier, 193-5204. CDI has a good support staff that will be able to answer the question. Check rapair .com
 

flabum

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 17, 2007
Messages
567
Re: what's up with this?

Simple, just stay away from those crappy batteries.
 

jay_merrill

Vice Admiral
Joined
Dec 5, 2007
Messages
5,653
Re: what's up with this?

I'm looking forward to the answer to this one because many (maybe even most) "house brand" automotive/marine 12 volt batteries are made by the same manufacturer - Johnson Controls. I've owned a number Walmart Maxx marine batteries and have had good luck with them. I had to replace one simply because I left it sitting for a couple of years without charging it. In that case I was rigging a used boat that I had just bought so I took the old one down to the local Wally World without a receipt, to recylce it and buy two new ones of a larger size. Even though I was pretty sure that I had purchased the bad one long enough in the past that the warrenty had expired, the manager sold me one new one at regular price and gave me the second one for a few dollars!

I'm not sure about some of the newer motors but the issue with the older OMCs seems to be minimum battery capacity, not brand/design.
 

cbeam2

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
94
Re: what's up with this?

I'm looking forward to the answer to this one because many (maybe even most) "house brand" automotive/marine 12 volt batteries are made by the same manufacturer - Johnson Controls. I've owned a number Walmart Maxx marine batteries and have had good luck with them. I had to replace one simply because I left it sitting for a couple of years without charging it. In that case I was rigging a used boat that I had just bought so I took the old one down to the local Wally World without a receipt, to recylce it and buy two new ones of a larger size. Even though I was pretty sure that I had purchased the bad one long enough in the past that the warrenty had expired, the manager sold me one new one at regular price and gave me the second one for a few dollars!

I'm not sure about some of the newer motors but the issue with the older OMCs seems to be minimum battery capacity, not brand/design.

I emailed for an explanation. I want to find out before I put on the rectifier that is headed my way because I also have a brand new Walmart battery.

Chuck
 

cbeam2

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
94
Re: what's up with this?

The only thing I have found out is that CDI doesn't recommend maintenance free batteries. Does anyone else have any info on this? What is different about a maint free that would cause a problem?

I have always thought that if the battery had a removeable cap that it was not truely maint free anyway. The Everstart marine starting batteries like the one I have have what appears to be the standard type removeable vent caps.

Chuck
 

flabum

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 17, 2007
Messages
567
Re: what's up with this?

It has to do with voltage. Some batteries will not come up to the voltage the regulator looks for to determine a full charge. without this peak voltage, the regulator will continue to charge and burn up the battery and itself.
 

cbeam2

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
94
Re: what's up with this?

Does this only affect the CDI rectifiers or is this across the board with OEM also?


Chuck
 

flabum

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 17, 2007
Messages
567
Re: what's up with this?

Does this only affect the CDI rectifiers or is this across the board with OEM also?


Chuck

Apparently only the CDI's Have not heard of this problem with OEM"s ........................ YET
 

Ranger 330V

Petty Officer 1st Class
Joined
Sep 25, 2007
Messages
242
Re: what's up with this?

what your saying is the rectifier never knows when the battery is charged so it continues to put the full amps to it?? I have an old johnson...78...with all new electronics..and a walmart maxx marine...largest they had. My voltmeter reads 15 1/2 to 16 volts all the time...I would rather it drop down to about 14.5 or so at some point but it never does..I think mine is the 9 amp system so I wouldn't think I was pushing the battery to hard..but I could see the problem with a 35 amp system that never shut off. I really don't see though how it doesn't know. I figured most starting batteries were about the same...I know quality is different from brand to brand...but they aren't deep cycle, they are starting batteries pretty much like a normal automotive one. Just seems like it would not be the batteries fault as it would be the electronics.
 

flabum

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 17, 2007
Messages
567
Re: what's up with this?

what your saying is the rectifier never knows when the battery is charged so it continues to put the full amps to it?? I have an old johnson...78...with all new electronics..and a walmart maxx marine...largest they had. My voltmeter reads 15 1/2 to 16 volts all the time...I would rather it drop down to about 14.5 or so at some point but it never does..I think mine is the 9 amp system so I wouldn't think I was pushing the battery to hard..but I could see the problem with a 35 amp system that never shut off. I really don't see though how it doesn't know. I figured most starting batteries were about the same...I know quality is different from brand to brand...but they aren't deep cycle, they are starting batteries pretty much like a normal automotive one. Just seems like it would not be the batteries fault as it would be the electronics.

Rectifiers don't turn on and off when the battery is fully charged, only regulators do. You can put a regulator on a 9 amp system. I have seen batteries explode on rectified systems because they never stop charging. If you have enough stuff running, the battery will never overcharge.


A rectifier is simply a set of diodes that converts the stators' AC voltage to DC voltage and does not sense battery voltage. It will charge indefinately.


A regulator is a rectifier with a voltage sensor in it. When the battery reaches a certain voltage, it shuts off the charge to the battery until the battery voltage drops to a pre-determined point and begins to charge again. Also, as the battery charges and reaches a certain voltage, the regulator will stop charging the battery.

If you have a battery that is not capable of reaching the voltage the regulator deems as fully chrged, the the regulator will continue to charge that battery.

We see this very often in boats with multiple batteries and using a battery isolator. the battery isolator will prevent voltage feedback to the regulator causing the regulatgor to continue charging,,,,,, but this is for another discussion......


No battery is created the same. Some batteries peak at 13 volts, some at 13.4 volts and some at 12.5 volts. The ones that peak lower are more susceptable to overcharging since the regulatoer considers (let's say) 13.4 volts as the cut-off. So a battery that is fully chaged at 12.5 volts will continue to be charged until it reaches 13.4 volts but never can by design, therefore get's over charged and resultantly explodes.
 

cbeam2

Petty Officer 3rd Class
Joined
Nov 5, 2007
Messages
94
Re: what's up with this?

Does this apply to the Optima batteries as well? Or is the gell cell a totally different beast?

Chuck
 

flabum

Chief Petty Officer
Joined
Feb 17, 2007
Messages
567
Re: what's up with this?

Does this apply to the Optima batteries as well? Or is the gell cell a totally different beast?

Chuck

Depends on what the peak charge voltage is. If you have a gel cell that is say, a 13 volt peak charge, it will go up to 13.4 to satisfy the regulator. (I am not sure of the exact regulator cut-off voltage here, just using 13.4 as an example), but if that gel cell won't make it to 13.4, then it will be overcharged. Most gel cells have a high full charge voltage, so gel cells don't count her, neither do dry cells.
 

F_R

Supreme Mariner
Joined
Jul 7, 2006
Messages
28,226
Re: what's up with this?

Most voltage regulators are set to about 14.5 volts, whether it be outboard motors, automobile, truck, or whatever. So, by what is being said here, all the cars going down the whizway are going to blow up? Check it out. I won't argue any more.
 
Top