Northstar repower?

[haulnazz15]

Re: Northstar repower?

The point has been made, there are so many better choices to go with. However, if you want to undertake it, go for it.

 

[justchange]

Re: Northstar repower?

The point has been made, there are so many better choices to go with. However, if you want to undertake it, go for it.

Thanks for that. It's something different.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Northstar repower?

Well, I checked and Mastercraft either never did or doesn't currently offer a northstar engine. Also, if that's a Northstar engine where are the plug wires in the rocker covers? Why is there an oil fill plug in them instead?--------Just askin.

"Never did" ? Um....they DID. "doesn't currently" .....well, again yes.. YOU can go to their website (like I did) and do a few boat builds. (I could be wrong but I think Mastercraft uses Indmar engines....it's easy to discover: http://www.indmar.com/ProductLine/index.html )

You can "build" a Mastercraft with a 6.0L variable valve engine. No one uses the Northstar engine anymore. It might be like the 460. It wasn't a "bad" engine.....it's just that no one uses them in stern drives anymore! So sterndrive specific parts like bell housings/rear engine mounts, couplers and jacketed manifolds (show stopper items) are not easily and cheaply available anymore.

If you apply this to the Northstar engine and other rather unique engines, you're going to spend a LOT of money trying to put one in a boat.

It doesn't mean it cannot be done......it just means it will cost more.....time & money.....probably more than it's worth just to say "Hey guys....look at my Northstar powered boat"!!

Also, if that's a Northstar engine where are the plug wires in the rocker covers? Why is there an oil fill plug in them instead?--------Just askin.

Well, I cannot see well enough in that picture if the plug wires are in the valve cover. as far as the oil fill and other external items.....Indmar makes all kinds of changes to an engine (Just like Mercury and VP does) to make them fit like they want in a boat.



Cheers,

Rick

 

[justchange]

Re: Northstar repower?

HT32BSX115 I was on thier site before posting my comment. If you go to Indmars home page and watch the engine assemble itself, it's clearly a pushrod motor. Sorry




The Northstars heads are much larger than those in the boat you posted.


I need to add. I wasn't planning on actually doing a Northstar in a boat. i was simply inquireing if anyone had ever seen on. Ok, I should have titled it different. Now that I've been told I should or cann't, it's a challenge.

 

[QC]

Re: Northstar repower?

It's not that I don't like your opinions. The data doesn't necessarily translate into real world performance or lack there of. Gearing plays an ever increasing role in any engine application. I've experienced one of these engines in a '94 ETC and the performance was way beyond the rated 300 hp. Engine stats are nice but what really counts is how it feels and works on the road or in the water. Correct?

In the case of marine, since you have only one gear and there is no downshifting and differences in ratios that make for a different "feel" I would say no, not "correct" . . .

Say for simplicity we were comparing a 300 at 4000 RPM vs. a 300 at 6000 RPM. If the outdrive had a 2:1 ratio with the 4000 RPM setup and a 3:1 ratio with the 6000 RPM setup, then the shaft speed at rated would be 2000 RPM for both . . . both making 300 hp (not accounting for any losses through the gear train). In reality the 3:1 setup would eat slightly more power, resulting in a little teeny tiny bit less at the shaft. This math also works for the shaft torque, which is ultimately what will give you hole shot. There is no way to fix this whole deal with gearing other than what I have posted, although you would be more likely looking at 1.5:1 and 2:1 . . . So a super cool 6 speed tranny with lock-up and sport "modes" will make a much bigger difference in an automotive application vs. what you will be able to do with Marine as far as "feel" is concerned.

BTW, for those that are paying attention to the Honda thread in SHTs, I feel the same about that question. Could work, but I'd go with Bombardier as they are already marinised to sit flat. The trick will be finding the right ratios. Still kinda silly and ungodly expensive unless you have an investor and plan to market the result to a yet to be understood segment . . .

 

[justchange]

Re: Northstar repower?

In the case of marine, since you have only one gear and there is no downshifting and differences in ratios that make for a different "feel" I would say no, not "correct" . . .

Say for simplicity we were comparing a 300 at 4000 RPM vs. a 300 at 6000 RPM. If the outdrive had a 2:1 ratio with the 4000 RPM setup and a 3:1 ratio with the 6000 RPM setup, then the shaft speed at rated would be 2000 RPM for both . . . both making 300 hp (not accounting for any losses through the gear train). In reality the 3:1 setup would eat slightly more power, resulting in a little teeny tiny bit less at the shaft. This math also works for the shaft torque, which is ultimately what will give you hole shot. There is no way to fix this whole deal with gearing other than what I have posted, although you would be more likely looking at 1.5:1 and 2:1 . . . So a super cool 6 speed tranny with lock-up and sport "modes" will make a much bigger difference in an automotive application vs. what you will be able to do with Marine as far as "feel" is concerned.

BTW, for those that are paying attention to the Honda thread in SHTs, I feel the same about that question. Could work, but I'd go with Bombardier as they are already marinised to sit flat. The trick will be finding the right ratios. Still kinda silly and ungodly expensive unless you have an investor and plan to market the result to a yet to be understood segment . . .

It'll have different gears.

 

[HT32BSX115]

Re: Northstar repower?

HT32BSX115 I was on thier site before posting my comment. If you go to Indmars home page and watch the engine assemble itself, it's clearly a pushrod motor. Sorry

No need to be sorry....

I didn't indicate that they use anything other than pushrod engines....

I was only referring to the original question......

Has anyone done or concidered using a Caddilac Northstar for a powerplant?

That question is answered from Indmars own site. AND in case anyone wants to put an LS-1 or a Cad Vortech in a boat they can call Indmar instead of asking here.......

So ....multiple birds with the same tired stone!!



This might even be better discussed in DOCKSIDE CHAT.......





From Indmars site.....

1998 - Cadillac's NorthStar Engine. First to marinize Cadillac's NorthStar engine.

1999 - LS-1 Corvette. First to marinize LS-1 Corvette.

2000 - GM's Vortec. First to marinize and market GM's Vortec HO 8100 (8.1L HO).

2001 - Cadillac's Vortec. First to offer a marinized version of Cadillac's Vortec HO 6000 (6.0L HO) engine.

 

[45Auto]

Re: Northstar repower?

You should look up the specs on the supercharged Northstar. [really big grin]

I saw the specs for the supercharged Northstars when I was looking up the specs on their normally aspirated engines. I was already familiar with the specs for the supercharged GM marine 6.2L smallblock posted by QC earlier, so I found the Northstar specs pretty unimpressive. As Maclin stated earlier, it's hard to beat displacement.

 

[justchange]

Re: Northstar repower?

HT32BSX115 this is true. I guess I need to navigate sites better. I'll try and send them an e-mail about this. My appoligys.

 

[mkast]

Re: Northstar repower?

Not personally. I have a friend that use to race those, the side oilers too. Every one thru rods.

Sure, we all have a friend of a friend that...making statements based on your friend's experiences is not a very "informed" position.
I would suspect the ability of the individual assembling the engine, or the quality of the parts used.
FE engines were not known for rods, valve train is another matter.

 

[martin pritchard]

Re: Northstar repower?

hi from nz kiwi i put a 1999 northstar in a jet boat and as far as i know i am the only one in the world to do it . the boat has shutdown everything including sc/lexus sc/buics 350chevs ls1. my advice to you is do it . i am getting over 5 thousand rpm with a b- impeller .

 

[45Auto]

Re: Northstar repower?

the boat has shutdown everything including sc/lexus sc/buics 350chevs ls1

Any links to your race results? Looks like Kruse Davidson is pretty much unbeatable in the NZJBRRA (New Zealand Jet Boat River Racing Association) C Class (4.2L - 5.1L). Says he's using a 5.0L Ford.

 

[martin pritchard]

Re: Northstar repower?

it is a stock motor in a family boat and i do not race any more if you want to race contact chrfab they are getting a lot of hp out these motors .i will help if i can get a email site to contact.

 

[45Auto]

Re: Northstar repower?

it is a stock motor in a family boat and i do not race any more if you want to race contact chrfab

I don't want to race, got all that out of my system about 20 years ago.

I just hoping that you could back up your claim that (assuming equal boats) you can outrun a stock 350 HP, 365 ft-lb of torque LS1 with your 300 HP, 300 ft-lb of torque caddy motor. I would be very interested in how you accomplished that. I guess I'll just have to keep ASSuming it was your awesome driving skills.

 

[justchange]

Re: Northstar repower?

Sure, we all have a friend of a friend that...making statements based on your friend's experiences is not a very "informed" position.
I would suspect the ability of the individual assembling the engine, or the quality of the parts used.
FE engines were not known for rods, valve train is another matter.

Belive what ya want. He's quite famous for all his short track wins in central WI.


Ok guys. I appreciate all the feedback on this. As far as I'm concerned, it's a closed subject. There's been two people that answered the question. Thanks again and happy boating.

 

[mylesm260]

Re: Northstar repower?

Marineizing a northstar is a stupid idea.

If you want to marineize something, marineize a Vortec 6000.

Here's a list of reason why marineizing a vortec 6000 makes way more sense.

#1. 400 HP in the vortec 6000, 300 in the northstar
#2. The vortec 6000 is ALREADY a marine motor (http://www.gm.com/experience/techno...s/specialized/marine/2010_6000_LY6_Marine.pdf) The marine and truck motors are virtually identical. Same cams, same ignition system, same fuel system.

Only real difference is the cooling system and if you're using closed cooling, it's a NON issue.

#3. Manifolds are already available for the vortec 6000 (PCM, idmar) only real custom work would be elbow adapters.

#4. The vortec 6000 has the same bolt patern as the cave-man chev small blocks that all our boats use.
#5. the vortec 6000's are a dime a dozen. Chev is putting them in EVERYTHING now adays, and there is zero demand for these motors because they literally NEVER die. GM made these with 6 bolt mains, they're virtually indestructible.

I'm looking for a vortec 6000 to marineize right now....

 

[justchange]

Re: Northstar repower?

Marineizing a northstar is a stupid idea.

If you want to marineize something, marineize a Vortec 6000.

Here's a list of reason why marineizing a vortec 6000 makes way more sense.

#1. 400 HP in the vortec 6000, 300 in the northstar
#2. The vortec 6000 is ALREADY a marine motor (http://www.gm.com/experience/techno...s/specialized/marine/2010_6000_LY6_Marine.pdf) The marine and truck motors are virtually identical. Same cams, same ignition system, same fuel system.

Only real difference is the cooling system and if you're using closed cooling, it's a NON issue.

#3. Manifolds are already available for the vortec 6000 (PCM, idmar) only real custom work would be elbow adapters.

#4. The vortec 6000 has the same bolt patern as the cave-man chev small blocks that all our boats use.
#5. the vortec 6000's are a dime a dozen. Chev is putting them in EVERYTHING now adays, and there is zero demand for these motors because they literally NEVER die. GM made these with 6 bolt mains, they're virtually indestructible.

I'm looking for a vortec 6000 to marineize right now....

I said it before-----I was looking for something different. If I really want a go fast boat with a pushrod engine, I'll contact RCR or Hendrick.


Now I'm sure that there'll be a bunch telling me I can buy a premarinized one for less.

 

[martin pritchard]

Re: Northstar repower?

here are the reasons for using a northstar . a very good power to weight ratio.they are very light. they are very compact . it is a chain driven dohc motor with the water pump at rear of motor that gives you more room in the boat as there is nothing on the front ie cam belts and covers etc . but best of all it has very good hp and torq curve for a jet unit as seen on the first page .most dohc motors use high rpm to get hp not good for jet units all in all a brilliant motor that punches way above its weight and size.if need more power out of northstar contact allen johnston at chrfab

 

[justchange]

Re: Northstar repower?

Thanks Martin. I'm aware of that place.


I found this from Ford Power Products.





Marine Power



All Ford engines are available for marine applications.

For more information, go to the Contact Us section




I just wonder why GM insists on using pushrod engines instead of developing a more modern, lighter and less complicated engine.

 

[mkast]

Re: Northstar repower?

I just wonder why GM insists on using pushrod engines instead of developing a more modern, lighter and less complicated engine.

Money.