The 2010 FrankenMerc Project

[sschefer]

Re: The 2010 FrankenMerc Project

I'm with you on the 2 stroke however, the complexity of a two stroke is much deeper than I've exposed in this thread. These motors are engineered to cover a broad range of uses. If you modify them too much you begin to specialize them. But, that's a beautiful thing too. If I wanted a 2 stroke that could pull skiers all day long I could build it that way and if I wanted one that would turn 11,000 rpm as a drag motor I could build it that way too but, I can't build a 2 stroke to go 11,000 rpm and pull a skiier too.

The next level of motors besides electric will be gas turbine. In fact, I've been toying with the idea of buying a surplus military field generator. These have sweet little 150hp gas turbine engines on them and they mate up to a merc mid with only simple modification. They're a few doing it now and I'd like to try it. Might be my next thread, I have an extra mid section.

 

[Faztbullet]

Re: The 2010 FrankenMerc Project

Option 1 - WH 40 Carbs
Option 2 - WMV-5 Carbs
Option 3 - EFI

Darn, one more thing to ponder over during my 5 am coffee.

Dont ponder over the EFI to long as it wont work on the 2.0 liter motor, the fuel curve is way to rich for it and it is non adjustable...been there and done it with a XRi system. My opinion ...dump the 40s as their stock 150 carbs,dump the EFI unless your going to get a 2.4 or 2.5 block, use the WMV-5 and jet them for a 175 or find a set of WH-28 and jet them 76 on mains and 56 on idle.

 

[sschefer]

Re: The 2010 FrankenMerc Project

Dont ponder over the EFI to long as it wont work on the 2.0 liter motor, the fuel curve is way to rich for it and it is non adjustable...been there and done it with a XRi system. My opinion ...dump the 40s as their stock 150 carbs,dump the EFI unless your going to get a 2.4 or 2.5 block, use the WMV-5 and jet them for a 175 or find a set of WH-28 and jet them 76 on mains and 56 on idle.

Absolutely correct. I was looking for 28's but found the 40's for 30 bucks and spent 80 bucks each on full kits for them. Then I decided not to build the 200 and sold the block so the WMV's came back into play. I was just looking at those today and thought I really should run those instead.

The EFI is still an option if the Wiseco fuel managment system will work with it. I've heard it can be set up for it but I'll call tomorrow and find out. I'll also give Brucato and Simons a call and see it they have any options. They're all 2.5 and 3.0 guys but maybe they have something up their sleeves. If not, then I'll save it for the next motor, next winter.

 

[Faztbullet]

Re: The 2010 FrankenMerc Project

Call over at Tony/Linda Brucato's and see if Tony has a PCU for it,and tell them I said HI . The Wisco controller wont work as the ECU is a PROM not a EPROM system, find a ECU from a 1994-95 150hp as these where 2.0 liter. The ECU # will be 11350 A29/A45/A46 and the 45/46's run 56psi fuel pressure vs the standrard 39psi.

 

[sschefer]

Re: The 2010 FrankenMerc Project

Call over at Tony/Linda Brucato's and see if Tony has a PCU for it,and tell them I said HI . The Wisco controller wont work as the ECU is a PROM not a EPROM system, find a ECU from a 1994-95 150hp as these where 2.0 liter. The ECU # will be 11350 A29/A45/A46 and the 45/46's run 56psi fuel pressure vs the standrard 39psi.

Thanks, I don't know Tony other than a few quick blurbs over at S&F but I'll tell them you said Hi. I think I'll wait until I see this EFI first then I'll know what I've got to work with.

 

[Dukedog]

Re: The 2010 FrankenMerc Project

With tha time, money and effort you are commiting to this motor acu or pcu from one of tha suppliers would be tha "only" way ta go as Merc doesn't offer an analog or didgital efi for a 2.0 motor. Even if they did it would be a crap shoot on tha condition of tha ecu. Don't short change it now. You've come to far....................

 

[sschefer]

Re: The 2010 FrankenMerc Project

With tha time, money and effort you are commiting to this motor acu or pcu from one of tha suppliers would be tha "only" way ta go as Merc doesn't offer an analog or didgital efi for a 2.0 motor. Even if they did it would be a crap shoot on tha condition of tha ecu. Don't short change it now. You've come to far....................

Agree, It's probably going the be the WMV-5's with 175 jetting to start with. The EFI will come later in the game. The opportunity presented itself for a trade for stuff I tried to sell unsuccessfully on eBay. I've had EFI in the back of my mind for a long time now. It was hard to believe nobody wanted a perfect crank for only 400.00. I should have posted Merc's list price in the ad.

 

[sschefer]

Re: The 2010 FrankenMerc Project

I had the opportunity to speak with Jay Smith of Jay Smith Racing Engines today. I won't spill the beans yet except that I was overwhelmed with his generosity. He shared some secrets with me and I was amazed at how so many of our methods were so similar considering this was the first time we'd ever really talked. I was really stoked when I got off the phone.

 

[sschefer]

Re: The 2010 FrankenMerc Project

Jay Smith sent me some of his engine assembly tools to try and report on -
Included in the box were 1 WristPin guide/c-clip insertion tool, 1 Piston rest, 1 ring compressor, 1 2" thread in dial guage.

Today we'll build a rod and piston using the Insertion tool and the piston rest.

The rest is the key piece in that it holds the piston at rest and requires no clamping. It's concave shape keeps the piston in place while you work around it. The big end rest is adjustable in height so you can easily slide the rod in place without dragging the washers and knocking bearings loose and loosing them. Still, you must be careful.

The first thing I do is count out my bearings. There are 29 bearings on each rod. I then put down a small amount of assembly lube.

I then roll the bearings through the grease and as you can see the amount is so small that there is barely any left when I'm done.

Next I locate a socket that has an outside diameter slightly smaller than the wrist pin. I put it in the rod and I insert the bearings around it. I then give a swirl and that sets the bearings against the rod.

Now I carefully set the washers on each side of the rod and then carefully slide it into place in the piston that I have setting on the rest.

I use another 1/4" deep socket that is slightly smaller than the insertion tool to align the washers a little closer. I also give it a swirl to make sure any bearings that may have fallen away and pressed back up against the rod.

Now I used the inside pin alignment part of the insertion tool and I ever so gently guide it into and through the pin boss, washer, bearings and out the other side. At this point you can pick up the piston and do a thorough search for any bearings that may have dropped out. It will happen to you at least once, I guarantee it.

 

[sschefer]

Re: The 2010 FrankenMerc Project

Piston/rod assembly Cont.

The wrist pin slides onto the insertion tool and then is pushed through the piston.

The pin should be pushed through just shy of the clip recess.

Next the c-clip is placed into the insertion tool and slid down to the opposite end. This process is hard to explain but pretty self explanatory when you see the tool.

The key to getting the clip to set perfect is to use a old wrist pin and set the clip squarely in the bottom of the tube.

Now the tool is set atop the piston boss and with a quick slap the clip is driven into the clip recess perfectly.

Repeat the process for the other side of the wrist pin and you are done.
Here's all six done now. I got the last 4 done in less the 45 minutes. The JSRE tools are great.

Here's what I use for the wristpin roller bearings during assembly. This is the only place I use this stuff and even this small amount will show up on your plugs during the first hour or so of break-in. It works well so I put up with it. I know of several other types that are supposed to be better but I've never had problem with this so I'll continue to use it.

It takes about 30 minutes to get the first one or two pistons done but once you get the routine the remaining will be done in no time at all.

The Jay Smith Racing Engine tools worked excellent and would be a great additon to any shop.

 

[sschefer]

Re: The 2010 FrankenMerc Project

Just got a email from Tony Brucato (http://brucatosvs.com/) about using the 2.5 150 EFI on my 2.0l and the answer is yes, just needs a different fuel curve and it will work fine.

Carbs are out and fuel injection is in. This wet reed type EFI type isn't all that much different than a carb engine and I don't expect any huge change in performance.

The EFI opens doors to using a Brucato fully adjustable ECU and other mod's. Irregardless of what you may hear, EFI is much easier to dial in than carbs but it can be more expensive and carbs would have worked just fine also.

 

[sschefer]

Re: The 2010 FrankenMerc Project

I begin sizing the rings tonight and was a little.. no ... a lot disappointed. The ring gap on the top rings were .020 on every cylinder. I swapped them every way possible and still came up with .020. I broke out both of my bore gauges (sunnen and mit) and checked the bores about 100 different way's and they were dead on the money at 3.155.

Merc specs are .018-.025 so I'm within spec with the top ring at .020 and the bottom at .021 but that's really sloppy and most dissapointing. I would have liked to have been at .016/.017 even though I should be able to go as tight as .014/.015 without bumping.

.006 over what I could be at is power robbing and that sux. Couple that with the sloppy wrist pin weights,tight pin bores and the lousy circ-clips and I'd have to say this is the last time I buy a set of ProMarine Pro pistons. The only positive thing I can think of is that at least all the top rings were the same. The bottoms ranged between .017 and .021. That's just bad quality control.

I'm actually thinking about throwing these things in the trash and getting a set of the new alloy Wiseco's. I'm going to stop all work right now and wait until I get back from fishing before I make a final decision.

 

[Faztbullet]

Re: The 2010 FrankenMerc Project

Dont throw them away send em to me!!! You would probably fall over from a stroke if you checked them GLM pistons you installed in your first engine I have to say you learned a lot this being your 2nd V-6 engine rebuild and congratulate you on it. Just hope you not diappointed in the final result.

 

[sschefer]

Re: The 2010 FrankenMerc Project

Dont throw them away send em to me!!! You would probably fall over from a stroke if you checked them GLM pistons you installed in your first engine I have to say you learned a lot this being your 2nd V-6 engine rebuild and congratulate you on it. Just hope you not diappointed in the final result.

I'm calling Wiseco today to see what I can find out about the new Alloy they're using. It's supposed to be zero swell and the Motorcyle/ATV guy's I've talked to love them now. It's no longer about cost, it's about right and wrong and these pistons are just WRONG!

Of course, if you throw balancing and blue printing out the window, these would be just fine and so would the GLM's but then that's what I have now. I don't want what I already have I want better.

Probably gonna go get a 2000 Skeeter Team ZX185 DC this weekend with a 150 Vmax... Can't wait to tear into that this winter.

 

[sschefer]

Re: The 2010 FrankenMerc Project

Let this be a lesson - DON'T get mad, get even.. go buy a new boat...

Picking this up in the morning..

 

[saumon]

Re: The 2010 FrankenMerc Project

Look like a fast ride!

Note to myself: how in the hell could i convince my gf that every time i'm getting mad enough, i could buy a new rig?

 

[sschefer]

Re: The 2010 FrankenMerc Project

Do like I do, park it in the garage and tell her you're working on it for a customer then later tell her the customer didn't pay so you're keeping the boat.

 

[sschefer]

Re: The 2010 FrankenMerc Project

Guess I didn't get the boat, they were supposed to call me by 8:30 this A.M and didn't.. Oh well, still got two nice boats.

 

[sschefer]

Re: The 2010 FrankenMerc Project

Ring sizing and piston installation -

Insert the top piston ring into the cylinder that you are working on with the ring gap towards you.

Set the ring 1" down the piston just in case your cylinder were honed without a torque plate. This will cause the hone to ride on the open end and can cause the cylinder to measure wider at the top than it is 1" down. I use a slug piston that I've marked so that I make sure the ring is set in the cylinder squarely.

This one measures .020 and spec is .018-.025 so it is within for a fishing motor. I like to see them much tighter but you can't stretch them so this is as good as it gets.

With the top ring measured I now repeat the process with the bottom ring. The bottom ring will be sized so that it has a .001 wider gap than the top ring hence the reason for doing the top ring first. The extra .001 helps to prevent top ring flutter although with this wide of end gap it probably won't make a lot of difference.

I put a fine file in a portable vise and take off whatever material I need to get it to the right gap. With this file I found that five strokes was equal to .001. You alway's take material off of only one side and your stroke should be from the outer edge to the inner edge of the ring as flat and square as possible with the ring facing up as it will be installed.

Clean up any burr that might have formed when your done and I like to just touch all the edges of the ring end with the file to remove the sharp edge. This is just a very light touch of the file. This helps to avoid that nasty looking vertical cylinder scratch that can be formed during break in.

Now install the rings on the piston. It is very very important to identify the top of the ring. There will be numbering or some sort of marking to identify the top and usually nothing on the bottom.

You can use a ring spreader if you have one, I never do with these types of rings but on chrome or gold plated rings I do.

Now align the rings so the end gaps are over the ring locating pins.

Continued in next post --

 

[sschefer]

Re: The 2010 FrankenMerc Project

Piston Installation -

We'll now use a common ring compressor with a light coat of Merc blended premium 2 stroke oil on it. We also put a light coat on the piston and the cylinder walls.

Notice the lap on the compressor... You want to position that so it's over the locating pins on the piston when you slide it on. When you tighten it up it the rings won't move as much and ride up on the pins. They still will but not as much.

Now, with the compressor tightened on the piston grab the rod and twist it. You should be able to feel the ring ends bumping the locating pins. If you don't or they dont fall into place with a little twisting then start over.

Make sure the the piston is going into the correct side of the block, they are marked P for port and S for starboard. They also have the word UP on them, make sure it is positioned towards the top of the block.

Tap the edges of the ring compressor so that it sets squarely on the block.

Now use a non marring tool such as I have here to gently tap the piston down and into the cylinder. If you encounter any strong resistance STOP, remove the piston from the compressor and start over or you will break a ring that you won't find until after the engine is running.

And there you have it.. Piston is installed. Reach under and grab the rod and twist the piston and listen for the click as the ring ends touch the locating pins. If you don't hear it or the piston won't turn easily then pull it and start over.

Next slide the piston down to the bottom of the bore and then back up. Make sure there are no signs of hanging on the ports the transition should be very smooth and never sound gritty. If it's gritty sounding you've got a bad hone job, didn't get the cylinders clean or have used dirty oil. If any of that is true. Start over and do it right.

Notice in this picture that "UP" is upside down. This is not what the word intends it means that "UP" should be positioned to the top of the engine, which it is and the "S" indicates that it is supposed to be on the Starbord side, which it is.